Can teachers refuse young children who need the toilet?

[RIZZ0]

What it says on the tin really. Our school only lets reception children go to the loo when needed. Everyone else has to wait for breaks, and I wondered if this is allowed?

DS is a young 5, in year 1. He can usually manage to hold it quite well so to be fair, hasn't complained himself, but I'd hate for him to have an accident and feel humiliated. Other mums at school have been upset about it and I have also, when helping out, seen a child in DS' class begging to go, whilst seemingly in a lot of discomfort, being told to wait and then forgotten about.

I know teachers have to encourage them to wait as they get older, but it seems archaic and mean... I'd understand if they said "can it wait a few minutes?" and if told "no" then let them go, but surely it's not good for kids who are bursting for a wee/poo to hold it until an allotted time when they're so little, never mind having an accident which can be humiliating.

Anyone know the rules on this sort of thing?

DS' school is tiny, unlocked loos a ten second walk from classroom. As far as I know he's never asked in order to be refused, but having seen the opinions here, I'd definitely complain if he was.

Thanks all I'm turning in, will read any more tomorrow. Been good to get teacher perspectives too.

I'm a parent helper some days and see both sides - I help in Yr1- if the teacher let every kid go to the loo every time they asked, the classroom would be empty.

If they don't like the subject being taught, they ask to go, if they are asked to tidy up, they ask to go, if they are told to sit on the carpet for a story they ask to go! I'm sure it is just a "boredom" or "I don't want to have to do this" thing, but it must infuriate the teachers - hence the GUIDElines that they go in break time.

I am also a mid day supervisor and a lot of kids would rather stay in the loo than go out in the cold/heat/wet/snow/dull and cloudy outside...

Don't know what the fascination is for stinky airless toilets, but heyho

BytheWay

They also use the toilets as a play area and get up to all sorts of mischief sometimes (locking doors and crawling under them for one). Why they want to slither around on toilet floors I don't know, eeew.

We expect children to go during break time and we frequently stop for toilet and drink breaks throughout the day. If a child asks to go during learning time we usually ask them to wait and keep an eye on them. If they are obviously desperate then of course they can go.

We send the whole class to use the toilet before they go out to play, before they sit down for lunch, etc. and the 'toilet bell' is rung ten minutes before playtime ends.

In fact, we have so many opportunities for using the toilet, it amazing we ever get any work done .

My general rules (overridden when a child's obviously fit to explode)

No you two are NOT going together - one at a time because otherwise you'll come back with tales of how your buddy squirted you with the water from the tap, or both of you having wet your hair to spike it up like you're wearing hair gel... I let one kid at a time go.

If it's in the middle of input I'll ask you to wait until I've explained what you need to do this lesson - or I'll get an outbreak of "can I go to the toiletitis" and no one will know what the fuck they're meant to be doing.

If it's a kid I know uses it as an avoidance tactic to start a task I'll ask them to get the date and title written and then go - it's less daunting for them to come back to a half-started task than an empty page and means less faffing about when they do come back.

I don't think any of that's particularly unreasonable. Worked in one school where the head decreed (she'd generally keel over to ANY parental complaint - hence why I don't work there anymore!) that NO request to go to the toilet was EVER to be refused (even with a "can you wait 2 minutes till I've finished explaining what the class has to do")... assemblies were utter chaos, lessons - well you couldn't ever get anything started because everytime you opened your mouth it was "can I go toilet", no one ever got a full uninterrupted explanation of a task, kids were endlessly fiddling with things to-and-from the toilets... it was a bloody nightmare.

I know of an infant school where they've had so many problems with vandalism and the like (ok so the school's in special measures and behaviour's a massive issue but still this is no word of a lie - shocking as it might seem) that they cannot let any child out to the loos unsupervised - they've had kids in Y1 and Y2 (the only ones with access to the toilets in question) smearing excrement up the walls, climbing on sinks, all sorts of really disgusting vandalism going on - and it's been a problem for at least a couple of years.

they shouldn't unless they want a puddle on the floor!

I took a copy of the bog standard into dd's school, i think her teacher thinks i am mad but never mind!

My mum taught for 40 years and always let a child go to the loo (apart from other exceptions mentioned above - ie know they'll muck about) - and she taught secondary! She reckons it's a basic human right to go to the loo when you need to - and to the "old fashioned results oriented" teacher, she was consistently judged as an outstanding teacher through-out her career and when she was a dept head her dept was the most successful in terms of results of any in the school and her school was the best performing in the city. So the idea that letting kids wee when they need to is somehow linked to molly-coddling and poor performance is BS.

I work in a Y1 class and we let children go to the toilet as and when they need to - but only one girl and one boy at a time unless it is a real emergency. We have passes byt he door which they can go and grab and go to the toilet, without asking if it is during activity time.

If on the carpet they do have to ask to go. If in direct learning time we will ask if they can hold on, but if not they can go. If it is 2 or 3 minutes before break/lunch - again we encourage them to hold on if they can. And if just after a break we will remind them that the best time to go is at playtime.

We do have some children who always appear to need to go at tidy up time or inthe middle of directed learning - and it is sometimes just a ruse to get out of it - so we do try to encourage better times to go.

DS is in Year 6. He is literal-minded to an unreasonable and sometimes disabling degree.

This is the first year in KS2 that I have NOT had to go into school to explain that if he is given the rule 'no going to the toilet except at break time', he will take this absolutely literally and will wet himself rather than 'break a rule'.

The anxiety that he MIGHT need the toilet before break is so great that it actually makes him MORE likely to go (think about how often you need to go to the toilet when you are nervous) and so a horrible spiral is set up.

Every year I have explained that if he is told that the rule is that he can go to the toilet if he needs to, whenever that might be, the effect will be that he only goes at breaks.... teachers are initially sceptical, then they found out that it works.

Year 6 teacher is fab. Apparently she said 'You're all old enough and sensible enough to know when you need the toilet. You are old enough to judge when it is appropriate to go, and when it is appropriate to wait if you can. It is your responsibility not to disturb anyone's learning as you go in and out, and to ensure that you know what you are doing when you come back in. I regard misbehaviour in the toilets as an abuse of the trust that I have put in you and will therefore be very cross indeed if I hear of any. I do not want you to be my first ever Year 6 class to let me down in this.'

End of story. Very happy DS.

Oh, and said teacher gets fantastic results - because nobody is distracted by 'oh my word how much longer can I hold on to break' and because she challenges the kids with so much responsibility for their own learning and carries that through in all areas.

Thanks all for your opinions and stories, feeling more confident about what is reasonable.

Olivia - I asked DS yesterday if he had ever been refused to go, and he said he asked politely twice in one lesson recently because he really needed to go, and the teacher said no and to wait for break.

I did actually say as you said above, that he should always wait to go in break times if poss, but if he felt he was going to have an accident, to run to the loo instead of wetting himself and I would deal with it. Bless him, he was horrified! "You CAN'T do that Mummy! You would get told off!!!"

Still, I reassured him that the teacher would prefer that to him changing his trousers once she realised it had been serious. He's a good boy and any teacher who vaguely knew him would know he wasn't looking for a distraction from lessons so I'm happy we had that chat.

Think I'll ask them to explain the policy at parents evening.

Night all.

Grrrr, these old fashioned rules make me angry!
To the posters who say ' they have plenty of time to go in break' - the avaerage bladder holds 1 pint and it takes approx 1 hour to fill. Do the maths! A child drink lots at break ....... hey presto an hour later they need the toilet because they don't have a full sized adult bladder of 1 pint capacity. It takes far less than 1 hour to fill.
Children should not hold their urine because it predisposes them to UTIs. I suffered in this way as a child, it involved numerous kidney scans, antibiotics, enuresis because I then refused to drink during the day because I was afraid I would need the toilet.
I am now a HV and it is one of my major annoyances with some schools/ teachers.

oops average

Great post!

I need to speak to school about my own dd about this too. She hardly ever drinks beyond 100ml all day at school and I'm now wondering if they have this stupid policy in Y1. She had started drinking fine in YR but we have gone backwards again .
The ironic thing is that

1. If a child needs the toilet do teachers think they will concentrate on the lesson?
2. If they don't want children to take time out of lessons - think how much time a child will take out with a UTI and the disruption to learning it causes
3. Think how much other pupils will be disrupted by having to clean up an accident
4. Think about how much sleep a child loses when they wet their bed and have to be changed in the night, how that affects their concentration all the next day.

Completely illogical!

I let children go, whatever their age (teach 7-13 year olds). If it's an inconvenient time or near the end of the lesson I will ask them if they can wait but if they say no I'll let them go anyway.

I realise that some will just say no because they know it will make me say yes. But I'd rather that than have a child wet themselves. That has only happened in my room once and the little girl (10 years old) had fainted resulting in her bladder relaxing I guess. Poor thing was devestated and mortified - and she had the excuse of being unconscious! I would never inflict that level of humiliation on a child.

I teach Reception. I believe going to the toilet when one needs to is a basic human right. At teaching input/story/ class carpet times I train them to tap their head to distinguish a request for a toilet visit from any other input they may be wishing to have via the usual hand up. This means I can then simply continue my story or input whilst nodding my consent for them to go. If someone taps their head whilst another child is in the loo I hold up 1 finger to indicate they may go when the previous child returns. I do my very best to make my 'performance' interesting enough so that they do not request to go because they are bored!! Put all together I find this system works very well.😄

Not completely sure why or how you upped a 2 year old thread to tell us that, but hey, whatever works, I suppose?!

Generally we let children go when they want, especially if we have been told that there is a need to go often or urgently BUT some children use going to the toilet as an excuse to not take part in lessons. It becomes very obvious when this is happening, and we may say no,wait for a little bit.
When the teacher is giving input (i.e.what they need to learn) it is very disruptive when a child goes to the toilet. And when one goes,they all want to go...it happens day in ,day out. And as it usually the same children, they are the ones who end up having gaps in their learning, because the teacher can't stop and wait for them to come back before continuing with the lesson objective. KS1 pupils are usually allowed to go when they want, but by LKS2 they should (unless they have specific problems) be able to hang on for a a short while. We also have a general rule that if one person from the class has gone,then the next person asking has to wait till that person comes back, otherwise we get problems with children "messing about" in the toilets (why they want to play there is beyond me!),throwing wet paper towels so they stick on the ceiling,climbing over toilet cubicles and locking doors so that no-one can get into the cubicle,and,worst of all,blocking the urinal !(EUGH!) It is not just boys,the girls do similar things too.
Sometimes it means I have to be taken away from teaching a group to escort known offenders to the toilet.

Had conversation about this very subject with ds who is 6 and in Y1.

He had asked to go to the toilet on Friday during lessons and was refused, told that he can only go during breaks.

Normally I would fully understand why the teacher would refuse, however as the children have been encouraged to drink lots of water during the recent hot spell I think she could have made an exception and for that reason I think she was a bit mean.

To be fair though I wasn't in the class so I don't know whether the dc had been told time and time again to go during breaks, get limited into from ds.

it is a lot more disruptive to let a child wet themselves. dd does not even have to ask and is allowed to walk out of class. they have suffered the consequences one too many times.

www.bog-standard.org/adults_guidelines.aspx

if you have poblems, contact the school nurse or gp and ask for a referral to the enurisis clinic.

Zombie thread - the OP has presumably sorted this now

Zombie thread or not it sounds like the issue is still alive and kicking in schools.

I'm all for a bit of awareness on how to broach the subject with the school, if you think it might be a problem for your child.