What 'standard' of writing would you expect from a year 3 child? Wonder if I'm expecting too much?

[BOOareHaunting]

Hi, evening all.

DS is 7yo, Aug birthday and just started year 3.

Writing is not his strong point in some ways but got a 2B for year 2 teacher assessments so he's where he should be iyswim? His verbal explanations are somewhat 'grown up' at times compared to his peers and his teacher said he gives some really 'shrewed' answers that make her smile at times!

What would you expect in writing?

b/d p/q to be correctly written? Or maybe just for some 'well used' words? DS will use 'd' correctly in 'and' and said' (sed!). He also writes them incorretly doing look, cover, write spellings.

HF words that can be read to be spelt correctly? EG said, put, was etc?

Spellings learnt over a week and spelt correctly in a test to be spelt correctly in written work? (see above eg)

legible with finger spaces and correctly formed letters?

An example: for homework DS had to write the 'rules' of speech marks. What he wrote was a great explanation about putting speech between the "" and where to put punctuation. However - it is very messy and illegibale to just look at, letters are fromed incorrectly, did is spelt bib, said (sed) put (poot).
Closer inspections, and because he read it to me it is decodable (ish!). He also though read what he thought (so wanted) to write nd not word for word what he had written.

I'm really not sure what is 'normal' iyswim? I have seen children his age write for fun and compared to them (aged 6-7, only 1 who's older) his writing doesn't seem that good.

Anything I can do to help him? - he has just started to chose writing as fun activity having had a strop at the word pencil previously.

In Y3 I would expect all letters to correctly orientated
I would expect words such as said to be spelt correctly

I would not expect words learnt for a test to be correctly spelt the next day ...
I would expect good presentation

unfortunately expectations don't always match reality

In Yr 3, DS wrote his letters correctly and could spell most high frequency words accurately. He could write sustained pieces of writing with a reasonably secure grasp of basic punctuation (full stops, capital letters and so on).

It is normal for some children to still reverse letters / numbers till 9 or so - not necessarily a cause for concern.

Don't stamp on his enthusiasm with dull writing exercises - think of writing for a purpose to engage him. Shopping lists (here you could focus more on spellings), letters to a grandma/anyone who would write back, silly notes to each other, shared stories where you take turns to write the next bit...

Focus on gently getting him to understand that in order to communicate, he has to write clearly using spellings that you can at least decode!

Thanks.

So mrz in the case of my DS, who's ability intellectually isn't reflected even slightly in his written work! would you agree it could be some learning difficultly? I'm not necessarily talking diagnosis, permanent LD, but perhaps something that would require extra help and could be overcome?

He seems to be able to form letters correctly when writing joined up, although he can't do this for a page of writing as has no fluency yet, he can form them stand alone, it's when he's writing a word/ paragraph he seems to 'lose' it.

I have concerns but wonder how confounded they are iyswim?

team Well done your DS. I hope mine will get there sooner rather than later.

bigTilly thanks. I am overly positive with him when he writes and I'm glad you've said about communication (eg a purpose) because I have been explaining it to him that way. It's reasurring to know I'm ding it right even if he isn't 'getting it' yet!

Love the ides about writing - postcards would be good? For example when we went to local beach at the weekend he could buy a postcard and write to a family member saying where he did and what? My Dbro is in the RAF so he would be a good one. Also my sister due at the end of the month - perhaps writing something for new baby about fun things to do when he/she's bigger!

Perhaps as well meals for the week? He can write what we need so he can have what he wants for dinner? Progressing to him writing how I have to make it!! Food is a massive motivator for him.

Mmmm. It could be an SpLD, or it could just be that he is young and is just moving into developing his writing skills. If the content is good, that could be how he scored a 2B, though from what you say, it doesn't sound like he really has the full range of skills yet.

My first thought would be to check if he knows how to form letters correctly ... if he starts a d & b in the correct place he is unlikely to reverse them the fact that when he joins this corrects the problems suggests he isn't starting in the correct place when printing.

As a teacher I would be working on the things you have mentioned and monitoring the progress but I wouldn't be too concerned at this point.

Thanks. I am mildly dyslexic and DS got 0.6 on DEST that's why I asked.

Infants always gave the old age excuse - 'boy/ youngest' but my feeling is that as that won't change - when do you say 'he's behind his peers?' (although I get levels wise he isn't iyswim?)

His junior yr 3 teacher is very lovely and seemed to listen to my concerns and agree somewhat. She is referring him to SENCO for assessment - she said SENCO may do dyslexia test on him.

Now, me being me I wonder if it's to shut me up or whether there could be genuine concerns! I don't want it to sound like I'm looking for problems, believe me I wish there wasn't any, but my dyslexia was missed the whole way through until college because I had the ability to cope. I may be projecting so DS doesn't suffer as I did BUT I could write better than he can now at 5! I also wondered if maybe I was expecting too much and therefore the problems I was seeing aren't actually problems iyswim?

It seems to me that DS doesn't write what he explains verbally because he finds it hard, not laziness as he teacher says he works really hard and always tried his best - although extremely easily distracted and totally disorganised!

DS also y3, summer born (and a lefty) got a 2b for writing which made my jaw drop because he doesn't seem that capable at all. But he doesn't make as many mistakes as OP describes (I think). Letters all correct but size variable, spelling so-so, capitals mostly conspicuous by their absence, other punctuation hit and miss.
DS is a poor speaker, he cannot write down what he's thinking much less think it in intelligible English, has been known to have almighty tantrums about drawing or writing anything at all.

mrz with b/d p/q I don't think he knows them/ can tell them apart enough to distinguish iyswim? He'll look at 'did' and say b i b or d i b or b i d. Although sometimes he'll ask if a b starts with the line or circle first!

ragged DS could trun on the taps at the words 'write' and 'pencil' We are just getting past that now! He does however love to draw - especially very complicated road maps, mazes etc.

I a trying to get him to type short stories on 'word' because when it underlines lot's of words he getting that the spellings do matter so he's asking now how to spell words. Mindyou I have to spell it letter by letter as he can't remember more than 2 in a row!

exactly the same as my ds2 who's now in yr 4. (didn't help that ds1 is G + T in literacy!)
also 2b at the end of KS1

He did some extra literacy in a small group for about 20-30 mins a day for about 10 weeks, and the work he did then was of a far superior standard to his everyday work.

He didn't improve much during yr 3 unfortunatly, (still a 2b in the assessments) but I've been concentrating on getting him to write postcards to his brother who is away.

(on a positive note, his reading really came on during yr 3)

Oh, this is interesting ... ds (also Y3, also assessed as a 2b in his writing last year) sounds very similar: regularly reverses b & d, and sometimes other letters/numbers (3 & 5, normally), struggles with presentation (regularity of letters, finger spaces). I don't think he was every taught to form his letters correctly - but am not sure how to go back to some of that stuff at this stage without it becoming deadly dull. Like your ds, Boo, he's only just engaging with literacy in a positive way & I don't want to go backwards ito his beliefs in his abilities....

x-post with lots of you. Ds has learnt d & b as dog and bog and you often hear him mutter "d for dog, dog has a tummy first and then a tail (ie round bit, then stick)

www.dyslexiacentre.co.uk/nessy/guests/guests/bdpfreebie.pdf

That's great, mrz, thanks

mrz that is fantastic thankyou.

Did LOL when I realsied I still do the L for left and right - especially when driving and I do it on the steering wheel! The whole page of b,d and p to read looked like lines and circles to me - it's made me realise how much I've had to rely on learning rules to translate what my brain see's iyswim?

My favourite one I made up is

BEAUTIFUL. I couldn't spell it still at 17yo

now I remember it as

BE beautiful And Ugly

Ahh, if you are dyslexic, then there is a great chance of your DS being dyslexic too - it often runs in families, like other SpLDs.

Thanks BigTilly. I guess deep down I know there is a chance its some SpLD as oppossed to just 'struggling' iyswim because I'm dyslexic.

Then I wonder if I'm looking for the problems because I know they can exist in families.

That's why I started asking what would be expected as oppossed to if he could be - then I could see if others thought the problems were there.

I'll wait until after half term and then meet with his teacher again and see where we are.

Thanks everyone you've been really helpful.

dd will be 8 at Xmas, is in Y3, and sometimes gets b and d reversed - but has got much better, very recently. Her friend (August birthday, Y3, aged 7) still does it regularly. I would agree that that in itself isn't necessarily a cause for concern.

DD1 reversed b and d throughout infants.

She is predicted a level 5 in KS2 SAT's.

Iamnotinterested Thanks. And well done your DD1 that's brilliant predictions

Elibean Thankyou. It's nice to have a bar to reach. Hopefully then DS should start to correct this during this year.