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Original poster

5yr old still cannot write a sentence

53 replies

Cleek · 11/10/2011 12:53

Just had a parent meeting yesterday. My 5yr old dd (summer baby) just started year 1 but she has been given IEP (SEN) since she was in reception because she was behind with her reading, writing and PSED. Over the summer holiday I worked hard with her so her reading is within the expected level now. However yesterday?s meeting the teacher told me that dd writing is still far below the expected level. As the school expects a child of year 1 should be able to write at least one or two simple sentence/s but my dd is still not able to write even one simple sentence. Also she is very quiet and not joining in without teacher?s constant encouragement especially at circle time. I now worry if dd is happy at school at all and wonder should she change school? Anyone would share their comments or similar experiences?

OP posts:
bigTillyMint · 11/10/2011 14:25

I agree Indigo - RollerGirls DD is doing great!

IndigoBell · 11/10/2011 14:29

theyoungvisiter - your DCs writing may be far better than Cleeks DD.

Just because they both 'can't write a sentence' doesn't mean they're both at the same level Confused

Alternatively your DSs teacher may have concerns but have not told you. Many teachers don't know how to give bad news and like to reassure parents with platitudes. (Hmmm, a bit like many MNers)

But I presume there's more going on with the OPs DD than just 'not writing a sentence'.

It is true that a few schools erroneously put summer born kids on the SEN register. But most don't. You all are questioning the SENCO and the teacher's judgment without knowing hardly anything at all about the OPs child.

theyoungvisiter · 11/10/2011 14:35

Ok Indigo it is true that there may be more going on than we know about.

But from what Cleek has said, it does sound as if the school is being quite negative in their approach.

I think I am biassed by being written off as a small child in Y1 by a teacher who told my mother I was "probably retarded" (please note - her words NOT mine) as I couldn't progress to the next reading book.

It was utter bollocks. I had a block with this particular teacher and her methods and had completely lost confidence. I reacted by going into my shell. By Y2 I was reading full novels (childrens ones obv Grin) and I now work in books for a living and have a first class literature degree.

I am all for helping children attain and improve but at this stage it needs to be done positively rather than negatively. By all means talk about helping a child to improve, but does the teacher really have to use language like "far below the expected level?" Children pick up on this kind of thing so easily, and many children will just give up rather than struggle on with a sense of failure.

IndigoBell · 11/10/2011 14:42

far below the expected level was told to the parent not the DC! There is nothing to suggest anything negative is ever said to the child.

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience, but school has moved on a lot since then. It's really not the same at all.

Sounds to me like the school are being realistic and proactive, instead of sugar coating things. And this is the right approach to take.

theyoungvisiter · 11/10/2011 14:52

No but I think what is said to the parent is symptomatic of the attitude to the issue.

thank you for your reassurances that school has changed a lot since my time. Gosh, do you know I was totally unaware of that?

Also thank you for the more than slightly patronising remark about people dispensing "reassuring platitudes".

I don't think anyone on this thread has done that. Cleek posted asking for shared experiences on a specific point - whether it was unusual for a 5 yo to be unable to write a sentence. No-one dismissed the Senco or the teacher - they just responded to the question. Describing this as "reassuring platitudes" is rude and dismissive.

Elibean · 11/10/2011 15:00

Well, if its not ridiculous to expect a Y1 child to write in sentences, half of our school's reasonably high achieving, leafy suburb Y1 children are doomed Smile

I would probably wonder if my dd was feeling pressured and unhappy, and starting to withdraw...but then, I'm only going on the OP, not had time yet to read the rest.

mrz · 11/10/2011 15:30

In my not so leafy school in a deprived area our expectation is for children in reception to be able to write at least one sentence.

So I agree with Indigo and others who have said this isn't an unreasonable expectation. As the mother of a child who didn't write until Y6 I really wish someone had raised a concern much earlier and not told me to stop worrying ...
My son like the OPs daughter saw no reason to write sentences for someone who was there to read when he could quite easily talk to them (can't fault his logic on that one) but there was an issue which wasn't recognised until he was much older and harder to resolve.

Tgger · 11/10/2011 15:31

Just remember all that in countries such as Sweden and Finland they don't teach children to read and write until 6 or 7 Grin.

If I was the OP my concerns with said child would be primarily about not being happy/able to be herself at school (eg circle time). Can I ask, is the school a private school?

Chandon · 11/10/2011 15:34

sorry but ridiculous expectations.

She sounds normal.

Sorry if that's not helpful

mrz · 11/10/2011 15:54

Chandon how many 5 year olds have you taught?

Most can happily write a simple sentence during play

As someone who taught reception for many years I consider it to be a ridiculously low expectation ... sorry

exoticfruits · 11/10/2011 16:25

I would be pleased that the teacher has flagged it up as an area of concern and would be concentrating on what they were going to do about it, rather than arguing as to whether it was normal or not.
Obviously the majority of the class are managing it in her school.
If she is very quiet and wants adult encouragement surely it is a good thing that she will get it? Much better than saying 'leave her alone, it isn't a problem'. Hmm

Shanghaidiva · 11/10/2011 16:40

I think being able to write a sentence is a very reasonable expectation and at dd's school they started doing this in reception. Every week they wrote a couple of sentences and drew a picture about what they had done at the weekend.

exoticfruits · 11/10/2011 16:42

It is far better to mention it now, and do something about it, than fob you off with 'she is very young in the class' and then bring it up when she is 8yrs as a problem.

IndigoBell · 11/10/2011 16:45

Yes, My DS couldn't write a sentence at the end of reception.

I really wish they'd raised it as an issue, and put him on the SEN register for that then :(

He's in Y6 now and I really hope he masters the basics of writing this year ( ie full stops and capital letters)

CecilyP · 11/10/2011 16:54

If they put every child who couldn't write a sentence at the end of YR/P1 on the SEN register, wouldn't that lead to a very long SEN register, full of children who were very far from SEN?

mrz · 11/10/2011 17:00

In reality CecilyP ... no

exoticfruits · 11/10/2011 17:05

I think that it would be very short CecilyP and I would have preferred my August born DS to be on it, rather than be told 'he is very young' when I was the one to worry and have to wait until year2 for the teacher to agree that I was right to think it a problem.
I recently saw a whole class of yr 1 stories-mixed ability-free writing. Some were short, some had very original spelling, but they all managed something.

PatriciaHolm · 12/10/2011 18:50

I think part of the "disagreement" is about the definition of "a sentence". DS can write a "sentence" if you include a line of badly formed letters which vaguely approximate words, that only he can read Grin He can tell what he meant to say, but it's not readable, and he's far from the only one. However, that is his "news writing". Quite a number of his friends can do that but not write a coherent sentence that anyone could actually read; is that a "sentence"?

Elibean · 12/10/2011 19:12

Yes, I agree the definition of 'sentence' counts for a lot here Hmm

My eldest dd (in top set for writing now in Y3) could most certainly NOT write much of a sentence by the end of Reception. Possibly 'my name is xxxx' but not much more. And she would have forgotten the capital and full stop most of the time, too. However in Y1, she learnt fast - and by Y2 had no problems at all.

dd2, OTOH, is starting to construct sentences at the beginning of Reception, before she even knows all her letter sounds. Possibly just the way she is, or possibly because she has an older sibling who loves to write - and she wants to copy her.

mrz · 12/10/2011 19:17

If you read the OP then it should clear up the expectations regarding a sentence

As the school expects a child of year 1 should be able to write at least one or two simple sentence/s

Just a simple basic sentence nothing fancy...

mrz · 12/10/2011 19:23

Patricia I wouldn't regard it a sentence unless it could be read/deciphered by others

Helo · 12/10/2011 21:08

I think Mrz makes a good point about what you consider a sentence to be - in Y1 it can be very very simple!

APP L1 talks about sentence like clusters and that is the expectation for the end of Y1 for an average child, but APP L2 writing presupposes that simple sentence formation is there so certainly as children go into Y2 I would expect them to be confident and independent at writing simple sentences (in different forms of writing).

I am expecting all of the children in my Y1 class to write phrases at least at the moment. Most of them can write a simple sentence, although full stops/fingers spaces/capitals are a bit iffy!

We did instructions recently and nearly everyone could write 'get the phone' - lots of interesting spellings but readable - there is certainly a difference between the children's work you have to squint at but then can read and the children's work that you cannot read at all.

Does your daughter write phrases? Or just single words?

sunnyday123 · 12/10/2011 23:23

im not sure if its a high expectation- as long as you dont need it spelt right! - dd is now y1 but when in reception the teacher would often read out something and the kids had to 'write' a sentence about it - most just wrote phonically using capitals and full stops. By easter they wrote something like 'the fiyeman speyd worter owt the hos'- the fireman sprayed water out the hose.

Now DD can write a few sentences but spellings are full of errors yet phonic based. I suppose it depends on whether an attempt is made?

goingmadinthecountry · 12/10/2011 23:50

I'm with Indigo Bell and Mrz - can she write cvc words? Eg cat, hot, not etc? Does she know how to do the, I, my? If she can say a sentence (and many can't in my experience) she can have a jolly good go at writing it down, and enjoy doing it. It should be fun for her, and I'm sure she'd feel a sense of achievement to start with.

I teach(supply) and have 4 children, so see quite a variety of work.

whatdoesthisbuttondo · 13/10/2011 00:01

I wonder if the struggle is whether a sentence can be thought or whether it's the writing it down that's the problem - some children don't appear to have the pencil holding skills to allow show us what they're capable of doing - or is the expectation at yr 1 for both?

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