Primary maths help please

[isitwineoclockyet]

My daughter's homework was all about odd & even numbers, & whether adding & subtracting odd & even will give you an odd or an even answer. So for example, odd + odd = even.

All very straight forward, except that some of the sums had decimals in them (31.3 + 42.6, for example)

DD couldn't do those & asked for our help. DH & I both thought the concept of odd & even only applied to whole numbers, except in certain specific cases, which neither of us can remember but which we thought were probably beyond the scope of the average primary maths lesson.

We asked our yr 9 daughter what she thought & she said she also thought odd & even only applied to whole numbers & asked whether they were supposed to round them.

I've just been & asked the school, & their answer is that if it ends in 1, 3, 5, 7 or 9 then it's odd, regardless of how many places beyond a decimal point the last digit is (so 3 is odd, 0.3 is odd, & so is 0.03.

Can anyone with a maths background confirm for me who is right?

(I should say there is some history here, including previous homework which had a 5x3 grid on it, & the statement underneath "In the 16 squares above.....")

Thanks.

Isitwine, can you talk to other parents in the class and find out if their children are telling similar stories. If this were my children's school, many parents would be upset and willing to complain about this.

Perhaps if a group queried it, you could avoid being seen as the troublesome parent.

I have spoken to the parents I know & some of them think it's awful & I should do something about it while the rest seem to think the teachers really must know what they're doing & we should trust them.

I've just asked my daughter how he explained it today, & apparently he "forgot" to go back through it again. I'm torn between suggesting she gently reminds him tomorrow, going in & having it out with him & just letting it go.

I know I should go in & speak to him, but it'll probably end with me cross & him smug & unrepentant!

You should write to Chris Woodhead's column in the Sunday Times news review. He is normally a total pillock but I bet he would have something to say about this nonsense.

I know it is only a small part of the curriculum but how can you be sure that he knows the rest of his stuff??? I would have grave concerns. IMO maths is a VERY important part of the curriculum. I really think you should raise it with the Head or Head and governors. Whatever your issues are with the Head, surely this will override them? Could your dc be moved to a class with a better maths teacher? If not, I would personally move dc to a better school. I think maths is simply too important to leave this issue at this and to hope he knows the rest of his stuff - too risky IMO.

If the child is in year 6 I think moving schools is a bit extreme. Next year she will be in secondary with "proper" maths teachers. I do think it is worrying that he has not got a basic grasp. Also this is not something that is supposed to be taught (mainly because it is rubbish) so why is he making stuff up to teach them when there is plenty of actual curriculum to cover?

if the teacher is no good, the head is unresponsive, the lea refer you back to the head you are running out of options. ofsted could be a good point of call.

And, because this has pissed me off, I have looked up the wiki entry.

The "decimal number system" does not refer to numbers with decimal places!! It refers to the system we use for each "column" having a place value ten higher than the one to it's right (unlike ancient systems using 20 as a base, such as calling 80 "four score")

Anyway, all numbers can be made even by artificially sticking pointless zeros on. I am reclassifying 7 as an even number by calling it 7.0

This sort of thing really gets my goat. Primary teachers should all have a basic grasp of KS2 maths. I am a French teacher yet it is not beyond me.

Write him a letter with quotes and references. He can't ignore a letter, and ask for a reply, something like you need to make sure you're singing from the same hymn sheet so you can support your dd's learning and his teaching, so you'd like him to explain odd/even as you don't think you understand it, given these quotes (refs) and what dd has told you.

My DD is not in Yr 6, though I have considered moving her & another DD I have in the school. They don't want to move because they have lots of friends, but luckily neither has long to go in primary.

Letters to the school systematically get ignored unfortunately, & I'm pretty certain that however well I drafted it & how much effort I made to be polite & respectful, it would go straight in the bin (or possibly on the staffroom wall!)

Part of me thinks I should push this all the way, because every other child in that class now thinks 3.5 is an odd number. Part of me knows from bitter experience that it's likely to require an investment of time & energy that I can't really spare & will probably just end in frustration & disappointment.

I will have a surf around the Ofsted website & see if there are any options for raising concerns about a school, & maybe I'll try the LEA again, but be a bit more assertive this time. I did try calling the education information charity once (can't remember what they're called now) but never managed to get through. They're obviously incredibly stretched as an organisation, which doesn't surprise me!

I must admit, taking it to the press (if I knew where to start with it) is a tempting option at the moment.

if you cc the letter or email to lots of people, they are less ikely to ignore it. or be able to ignore it.

Taking it to the press is easy - contact your local paper.

But before you do that, and before you complain about the school, you will have to go through the formalities of writing a letter of complaint. Otherwise, the HT/Governors can just say 'no-one has raised this with us' and they're off the hook.

The attitude of the school is more concerning than this odd and even malarkey. If they are not even prepared to listen to any of your concerns then that is quite worrying.
I'm afraid the odd/even thing is not going to trigger any ofsted action, they do have bigger problems to sort out in schools. But a complete disrespect for parents is Not Good at all.
Write a "query" to the letters section of the TES. The school are likely to read that and hang their heads in shame. But as said above, you do need to try the usual channels of complaint first. Perhaps you could try to arrange a meeting with the head teacher?

My advice would be to write a letter to the teacher and copy it to the HT. In my LA, schools have 48 hours to send a reply or make contact.

The best thing to do is to keep it simple, asking for an appointment to discuss a matter of some urgency. State in the letter you would like to speak to the teacher and a member of the senior management team.

I wouldn't go into specifics at all in the letter. This avoids the possibility of any miscommunication. Make it clear in the letter that they have a time frame in which to reply to you and that if you have not received a satisfactory or timely response you will be following the letter up.

In my experience with my DS's school keeping things as detached and unemotional as possible has been far more effective.

You know, the "odd & even malarky" would actually be a small thing if I'd been able to discuss it with the teacher. This is the heart of the problem isn't it? I was really hoping when I went in the other day that the teacher would just say that it was a misunderstanding. What actually happened was that he smirked at me, told me I was wrong & then asked me to leave (& I didn't go in all guns blazing & saying he was stupid, I just asked whether they were supposed to put N/A or something over the ones with fractions in)

I'm actually scared to write to him or the head, because I know how they're likely to respond. I know that must sound stupidly over-dramatic, but that's the situation I'm in. I'm not a timid person, at all. I'm a highly qualified professional & I like to think I'm a confident and articulate person, but I am too scared to approach my childrens' school (& with good reason, to be honest). The suggestion that I speak to the head - in person - makes me want to go & hide under the duvet!

I know that must sound like an untenable situation, and one that the governors, LEA or Ofsted should or would be interested in, but I have no faith whatsoever that there is any system in place to address it (I have tried). I know there are other parents who feel the same way, which is why no one else is raising this issue with the teacher either.

There are teachers who you can approach on an individual level who will talk to you & try to sort things. The problems arise as soon as you get a situation that a teacher can't or won't resolve that needs to be referred elsewhere. The management team is arrogant, distant, unapproachable & frequently almost aggressive when dealing with parents.

I think I've been a little bit in denial about how bad things are. I suppose I hoped that while my DDs don't have long left in the school I could just let stuff like this slide, but evidently that's not really the sort of person I am.

Perhaps I'll drop the CoG an email & ask for a meeting. That way it would be a little less formal than writing to her to complain, but avoids the need to go near the head.

Yes, I think that is a good idea. You should not feel that you can't approach the teachers because they are aggressive, that is not how a good school operates. Imagine if it was a more serious problem and you were treated in such a dreadful way?

It was a more serious problem once - my DD was deliberately hurt by another child. I didn't speak to the head then either, & he never contacted me (though he did speak to the parents of the children who did it, & there's no doubt over how serious an incident it was).

Well, I think the more incidents that you can mention that you haven't been listened to, the better.

It may seem like a small thing to complain about, but actually it's not. There has been a lot of research on why some people struggle with maths, and there is now strong agreement that success in maths is largely down to confidence. In other words - "whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

In this situation I would complain to the School, and if necessary the Governors if the Head was not an option, because if this sort of poor teaching knocks your child's confidence in her ability to do maths that will damage her long-term maths ability.

I'm really shocked by this.

I hope you do manage to get this complain listened to. Personally, I think you should not mention older incidents (even if they were serious), but you should push hard to say that this is unacceptable. If the teacher had simply admitted he was wrong it could all have been sorted out easily; now he's managed to confuse a whole class.

I'm horrified at the school's attitude to parents. I would be thinking very seriously about another school.

I am so sorry to read that you have had such a poor response from the school to previous concerns. Good schools understand that communication is key and at the heart of it all should be an understanding that education is not stand alone but a partnership between school and home.

I had a horrible experience with my DS's school in his first year at primary. It took me a couple of years to regain any trust in them. Now that it has been regained I value it greatly.

I have no advice but you do have my sympathy.

I feel upset on your behalf, I don't understand how a confident person like you has been made to feel scared of contacting the school about something as important as your child's education. What sort of people are these?
I really hope you find the strength to put things right. How can you or your child know what other incorrect information has been drilled into the students by this teacher?

Thanks for your support.

I have decided to send a very brief note to the teacher asking him to clarify what answers he was expecting the children to give to the questions involving fractions. I won't go into my thoughts on the matter, or his refusal to discuss it earlier in the week.

He can have until hometime Friday to respond, & if he doesn't, I'll go to the governors again.

If he sticks to his original position, then I suppose I'll have to take that to the governors too.

I'm not sure what I'll do if he comes back with "fractions can't be odd or even", because so far, that's absolutely not what he's taught the class. As far as I know, the rest of the class still believes 3.5 is an odd number & 3.6 an even one.

timetoask - honestly, I wouldn't have believed there were people like this in primary schools if I hadn't encountered it myself. If I told you the half of it, you'd either think I was making it up, or that I was delusional.

"I'm not sure what I'll do if he comes back with "fractions can't be odd or even", because so far, that's absolutely not what he's taught the class."

Could you not attach a photocopy of the original worksheet which shows that this is what he WAS saying?