best type of school for a very bright introvert

[sosickofschool]

I'm so angry i have kept my 5yr old dd off school today.
My dd is very bright but painfully shy and a real introvert and therfore continually gets misunderstood,forgotten and ignored.
DD is in a large oustanding state school and in year 1,throughout my dd's time in this school noone has ever understood her,i appreciate that she is a tricky character but surely teachers should be used to dealing with a variety of different personalities.At this school it is the outgoing vocal kids who are percieved as being bright and my dd is descriminated against because of her personality.
DD left reception on all 8's and 9's but is in the bottom group for numeracy and second from bottom for literacy,so because the top group are all extroverts they are challenged and because my dd is an introvert she is not.
I'm so sick and tired of everything and so angry that i have kept dd off today to go and look at new schools,what should i look for in a school for a bright introvert?

I would also say that 8s / 9s at the end of EYFS do not necessarily translate into 'higher ability in numeracy or literacy in Year 1'. The skills needed are rather different and it can give a false picture to equate higher scores at EYFS with higher NC levels. Also, as other posters have said, you do not know the total ability profile of the year, just that of your own child....

If your child is as able as you have described, then she should be capable of showing that ability in her recordings of what she does - written work, calculations, jottings etc. Those do not depend on whether she is introverted or extravert, so if she is producing good quality written work, then her ability will be recognised and the groups re-organised.

It may be that her lack of social confidence is not allowing her to show what she can do in a school context, and so she has been grouped with e.g. a group that frequently gets TA support to encourage her more than she would in a more independent group. I have sometimes placed a slightly more able but not confident child in a group whose work she can manage easily beore giving her the next group's work as an extension, as some children need to get their confidence up through doing something they find straightforward before they are willing to tackle challenging work.

Do you have examples of excellent unaided work that she produces at home e.g. writing that you could take into school to discuss with her teacher? Teachers will always take such things into account as they give a much more rounded picture of a child ... but get rather grumpy if the 'fantastic' work shown is demonstrably done with mum at the child's elbow giving her spellings or ideas or even (boy in my class last year) writing the whole thing out for child to copy!

Also, I would expect groupings in Year 1 at this point in the year to be very fluid, possibly even mixed ability or based more on who works well with who rather than 'pure' ability. It is early on in the school year, the step into Year 1 and more formal learning is one which involves adjustment, and you might find that steaming into school with a 'she's in the bottom group' wrong-to-be-righted agenda is in fact based on a total misconception of how the groups are working.

Good post, Teacherwith2kids.

How are you sure that she is in the bottom maths, second to bottom lieracy?

Just had a look at the chart and 8/9 looks just what the average child would be doing at the end of reception.Ordering, writing and counting objects up to 20, writing captions and simple sentences etc.certainly doesn't sound like very bright to me.

Maybe mixed ability tables,or trying to help her gain confidence. . It is still very early on. Try not to worry your Dd

The OP has not been back...

well noted

OP?

I could have said the same of my child 2 weeks ago and decided to mention it at the parent teacher meeting if it hadn't been sorted out. In a class of strong personalities, the teacher didn't seem to recognise my dd when we met outside school!

But they've just had their literacy and numeracy checks, dd has been accelerated 2 reading levels and is top group for both. Best of all, the teachers makes a great fuss of her when they meet outside and definitely 'gets' her now.

Most of the time, teachers do know best. We need to give them a chance, that's all.

"Misunderstood"? "Tricky"?
DS alternates between Manic Maniac, Screaming Crybaby and hyper-focused high achiever... now that's tricky. I pity his teachers.

DD was a painfully shy introverted child and was put on top ability tables in y1.
I don't think shyness is the problem.
btw, DD turned into a terrific confident outgoing child by start of y3, quite a transformation. You really "never can tell".
We don't have numbers for end of Reception attainment, so can't compare there.
Some children are easily overlooked, that's a different problem, and imo, tends to be lower ability children rather than higher ability ones (they are overlooked because of good natures, they don't misbehave due to being bored/lost in class, so they don't get their needs met). I suppose any ability child could be overlooked, though.

Private school with smaller classes might be the way to go.

I was in the same boat yesterday. My shy and introverted 4 year old DD1 attends a reading class and I thought to ask the teacher how she was doing (I asked her 3 weeks before). First time round, the teacher said she was shy and quiet but hopefully will come out of her shell with time. Yesterday, her response was ?she does her work neatly but she says the sounds really quietly it?s hard to judge what she knows, what else can I say?. Nothing wrong with what she said but she said it in a very dismissive manner.

My first instincts were, we are not going back there but between leaving the classroom and walking to the car, I figured, I can?t cut off my nose to spite my face. My child has to learn and how I feel about the teacher shouldn?t cloud my judgement and in any case, so many years of school ahead to deal with teachers I may or may not agree with.

My DD knows all the letter sounds she has been taught both at the Reading class and in nursery. I know because we practice at home and after the reading class, she?s reeling off the letters she learnt in the car. She?s painfully shy outside that I worry that when she starts Reception in a large class size of 30 she won?t get enough attention to show what she knows.

I sympathise with the OP as it is very frustrating and depressing when a very able child is seen as unable just because they are so shy. I suppose the question should be how one can get the kids to be less so introverted and shy.

This is very tricky but I think you need to calm down OP and speak to the teacher. How do you know she is in the bottom groups? Um where is the OP??

MammyT and others - I'm very interested - did your teacher tell you she is in the top groups or did you work it out based on who is in them? Glad your dd is more comfortable in her class now. Often it just takes a bit of time for them to get to know the teacher I think.

I apologise for asking on an existing thread but I figured since it?s probably similar issues, it might be ok.

Just been to my daughter?s nursery for the half term review. Teacher said she recognises numbers 1 to 10, knows some letters sounds and can write her name sometimes. I felt like, NOOOOOOOOOO this is not my child. She recognises and can write 1 - 20, knows a lot of the letters and has even started blending some CVC words and she can write her name correctly all the time.

This is where her being so quiet outside is a problem because no one would know what she knows if she doesn?t speak out and if she goes to a school where pupils are streamed, she might end up in the wrong group because teachers can only go by what she does. I am now accepting she is very quiet and shy outside familiar environments (she?s been in Nursery for 2+ years now though) though she is a very confident chatterbox at home.

If anyone has any good ideas on how to increase a 4 year old?s confidence/self-esteem, it will be greatly appreciated. We have been doing drama class since February just to build her confidence but it doesn?t appear to be working so far. Thanks.

Ilelo - did you tell the teacher? Your DD is still very young and I am sure the confidence and self esteem will grow in time. Sounds like you are supporting her well.

When i've had issues in the past I've often wondered about making some video diaries/recordings over a long period and then sending to the teacher. You know the sort of thing ORT level 3 at school but reading Horrid Henry at home fluently etc and my son getting his head around complex comprehension questions (we had an issue with very rigid 'ability' groups in Y1 mainly). I resisted as I thought I'd look like I was completely over the top :) and feared being judged as beyond loopy by the teachers.

I've come to realise that you are your child's biggest advocate and you have to grow a very thick skin at times. Tell the truth and tell them what you've told us. We had a situation in Y1 where it felt like the teacher had a check list and if the child didn't give the prescribed answer they were deemed not to know. Given what I've learnt I would handle things politely but very differently if I had the experience again. Good luck am sure it will all come right for you.

Thanks Cortina. Oh, I?m learning pretty fast that I have to be her biggest advocate; yes, I told the teacher and noted it in my comments for their records too. She agreed some children are like this but I couldn?t help feeling I might not be taken seriously. I thought of showing her videos on my phone of her saying the letter sounds whilst we were playing snap with letter cards at home, her performing a play she?s just made up herself, etc. but felt it might seem over the top? Now I think I should have done, I will probably do actually.

I?m concerned that if in a class of 16 children, her abilities are not recognised (and I am not faulting the teacher) what happens in a class of 30. Still have the Independent vs State school debate going on in my head.

Anna - stop advertising - pay for it like everyone else.

Ilelo, please tell me you didn't actually show video recordings of your DD to the nursery teacher ?? Actually, if you DO end up doing it can you record the teacher's response because I'd love to see it.

She's in nursery. Nursery. Not school. Why does it matter so much that the Nursery teachers know exactly what she's capable of? Is she going to be streamed and given academic work there?! I would assume part of the reason they haven't seen her writing to 20 etc is because kids are usually playing at nursery and this won't always involve a lot of writing. Your DD is very little and still a work in progress, she will no doubt change enormously just over the next 12 months so I'd really stop worrying about confidence. I can't imagine it would do a huge amount for her self esteem to have to 'perform' by naming letters and writing numbers correctly while you record the evidence.

Ilelo - the "observed" achievements are always way behind what DC are actually doing, IME, as the staff have to observe and document them doing something on (I think) 3 separate occasions before they can "tick it off". Have a chat with the teacher if you feel like it, but FFS don't show her videos .

Oh, and my DD was painfully shy at nursery and is a complete dominant bossy boots a lot more outgoing now (in reception).

8s and 9s? What SATs scores in yr1?

It is of course possible that in a well-taught Reception class, the majority of children reach level 9 (and are believed to be above that level, but cannot be assessed as such as the scale runs out). So perhaps your DD, though doing well on a whole population based assessment, is indeed average, or below average, in her cohort.

Blueberryapple - the teacher told us she was in the group who were given extension work and being challenged (her word). In fairness, we had worked it out as dd's group would do a number scale in 2s while the rest did single digit, say.

Of course we expect movement in these things so she may not always be in that group. This teacher is well able to differentiate.

Definitely home educating would be my advice.

PosiesofPoison: it's the EYFS assessment scale. My youngest was assessed against these (they hadn't been introduced for elder two). As you will see, the levels in some areas aren't particularly demanding.

I thought that 8s and 9s were well above the national average for an end of Reception's assessment, or so we are led to believe if you look through old threads on here!

Having said that, I don't think they are a huge indication of later success, as certainly the NC levels do not seem to match exactly and are looking for different things.

The introvert/extrovert thing should really have no huge bearing as most of the assessments are on paper, although in a large class the more introverted ones can get less attention, especially if well behaved!!

I would calm down and make an appointment with the teacher to understand how it is all working, what areas of weakness/strengths your daughter has and how you can help her. Like others said, she might be in a very bright cohort anyway, so bottom tables do not mean she is behind, or the teacher could have set mixed ability tables. Good luck!