Year 3 Optional Sats Levels

[redcarpet]

My dd who is in year 3 did some test a few ago at the beginning in her new junior school. I understand/think that these are optional sats. She got level 2C in her reading although she was a 2A in her KS1 national sats. She was a 2C at the beginning of Year 2. I asked the teacher as to why there would have been a two level drop and she explained to me that the ones in Year 3 are much harder and would have been a challenging and shock for most of the children. She showed me an example paper and the sort of questions that they asked and how different this would have been to a KS1 Year 2 sats.

I then asked what her target would be for end of year 3 and which I was told would be a level 3C but she also explained that there would be more of these test prior to the xmas holiday and children are moved around when necessary.

In Maths she got a 2B which didn't change from KS1 Year2 NATIONAL SATS.

I would therefore want to find out if this is an ok level or below level to be at and whether these are the ones that the school would determine or set targets for year 6. There seems to be not much information regarding the levels of optional sats levels.

Although the levels from KS1 to KS2 should be the same in SATs tests ( ie a child who achieves a level 2A in the KS1 test should in theory achieve the same in a KS2 test) they are not always!. However what can vary is the delivery. In our KS1 test the children are basically given as long as they like to work their way through the booklet and the format is much more "child friendly-a short piece of writing followed by a few questions then another piece of writing etc, in Year 3 there is a strict time limit and the format is much more formal-a long reading booklet and seperate questions. This can be daunting for some children.
In addition, the KS1 result may well be ( indeed SHOULD be) a combination of test and teacher assessment. The Optional SATs result is just test based. So children might perform poorly in tests but better in class.
However I would just keep an eye on her levels at Xmas if she is "tested" again, as 2c is certainly lower than would be liked at this stage in year 3. I don't know of any school that sets targets for year 6 based on just one test, ours are reassessed every term!

Thanks Snowball3. So I am quiet right to be worried

levels are levels regardless of whether they are for a SATS test or an assessment made by a teacher at any point during the school year.

i know you're not saying this but so many people are under the impression that you only get levels when SATS tests are scored and that's not the case. the levels are there 365 days a year for teachers to use/not use for class based assessments or end of year, baselining, etc etc etc

The "average expectation" , if there is such a thing, is a 2B at the end of year 2 and you would expect this to rise to a 3C by the end of year 3. So 2C at the beginning of year 3 is, in effect, one sublevel below where your child should be. This is not disastrous but does need watching and I would expect the school to be offering some additional support.
I notice you say "new junior school". Although it shouldn't happen ( but we all know it does) the infant school is measured by the levels at the end of year 2 so it is in their interest for these results to be as high as possible. The junior school however is less concerned about this buteach teacher is measured by the progress the children make whilst in their class , so if the current teacher can claim ( whether rightly or not!) that the KS1 results are inflated, there MIGHT be a lessening of expectation on them!

She has been getting levels since year 1 which were class based assessments at the bginning and end of year. She has never had a drop . Its only now into the junior school. However I have also read some threads here mentioning that level 3a/3b is what would be expected by the end of year 4 in KS2.

You would usually expect 2 levels over four years, so in theory one and a half sublevels per year, but you can't have half a sublevel so most schools work on 2 sublevels one year and one the next although some schools have slightly different ( ie higher!) expectations.If the average child is a 2b at the end of year 2 they should be a 2a/3c at the end of year 3, and a minimum of 3b at the end of year 4.

The two results differ because they are not at all comparable - one is a thorough teacher assessment made up from lots and lots of pieces of evidence, and one is a one off timed test. Which result is likely to be more accurate?

Y3 assessment should also be teacher assessment, backed up by an optional test some time in the year if the teacher absolutely must.

A one off 2C in your dd's first timed test ever is nothing to worry about - all the other pieces of the jigsaw (how she works in class, the kinds of books she reads and responds to, the talking she can do about aspects of her reading, her comprehension) are all much more important.

She showed me an example paper and the sort of questions that they asked and how different this would have been to a KS1 Year 2 sats.

That bit is total bollocks! The questions would not differ from level 2 questions in a level 2 test.

Ah Feenie, but that assumes the level is based on a comprehensive teacher assessment! It sounds as if the level has been given based on a single test!

What level? Not following you.

I think the level was given based on a single test. The teacher mentioned that she had not yet received her SATS result/reports/files from her previous infant school.

As I said, I don't think you should be worrying about your dd's attainment in just one timed test - it's incomparable to all the other data. And the teacher needs to base her assessment on more than this aswell..

This sounds very like what we were told at our parents evening a week ago. At the end of Year 2 her teacher assessment was 3 in reading, 2A in writing and 2B in maths. But her Year 3 teacher has dropped her in writing to 2B and said she was "surprised" that she scored 2B in her maths test as she thought she was lower than that (cheers!) However, she did have her at 3C in reading and said that was very good on a Year 3 test and that a lot of kids had dropped grades on the harder test.
If you think about it, it is a different experience getting a high mark on an easier test to getting a low mark on a harder test. Because the easier test probably would have started with quite easy questions which allow children to get into the swing of it and build up confidence. But in the harder test if a child doesn't find the first couple of questions easy they could get very discouraged and give up early. Perhaps you could talk to your daughter about the test, asking how she'd found it? She may tell you she just got bored half way through!

HPFA thats kind of reassuring. I asked my dd and she admits that she found the tests harder than in Year 2. I think for now its a case of being patient and monitoring her future assessment towards xmas.

The test were done too early, soon after the long summer holiday and the change from moving from an infant school to a junior school might have been too much for her.

As Feenie has said Y2 levels are based on a whole year's work not tests so gives a good overall assessment of a child's ability. The optional Y3 test is timed and is a very different experience for a child
With respect HPFA you have been fed a lot of hogwash it isn't a harder test

Further to my post I just wanted to add that DD has been dropped to the bottom table now for Maths in her class. The Junior school seems like a different ball game.

I sometimes wonder how schools get through Ofsted with all this reliance on testing.
Why are Y3 teachers testing optional SATs this early in the year - and why are they reporting to parents? I would hope that they were assessing, using various tried and tested methods, collating the information and coming to a more informed conclusion. Honestly, makes me bloody mad when other schools seem to get away with these things.

I agree, Fraidylady, and would add why are they testing so early (using a test that is incomparable and out of step with assessment everywhere else when used in isolation), reporting to parents and knocking a child's confidence so badly? Makes me cross too

Fraidlady I wonder as well. The school has an outstanding Ofsted as well which is questionable. Regarding the tables it was my dd who informed me that she had sad news for me that she had been put on the bottom. The teacher told her that she was in the bottom as she felt she needed more support. My guess is that dd is probably repeating the stuff she did in year 2 ie level 2b/2c. I will have to find out from the teacher whats going on.

I have to add that the junior school has three classes and the school justified the tests for setting purposes specifically for Maths though they took test in all the other subjects. DD was on free readers in Year 2 and right now she has been put back on the graded reading schemes which she is absolutely bored with and unmotivated.