Streaming/Setting - Does your school do it? Are you pro or anti?

[ButWhyIsTheGinGone]

Hello all,
Am just curious to hear from others on the subject of setting. I am a teacher of 5 years and am currently teaching my hair out with a particularly wide ranging class - in Literacy ranging from P scales (pre-level 1) up to level 5. And it's not just the case of an average class with one or two exceptions either end - they're a right mixed bunch!
I have wondered for the last couple of years whether streaming might not benefit everyone. It means those who are more able could be allowed to progress at an accelerated rate whilst those who struggle could be given more of the support they need. Obviously, I differentiate to the absolute best of my ability, but during the "input" part of the lesson I'm sometimes aware I'm gonig over some kids' heads or not stretching others.
Does your school do this? DO people think there's still a stigma attached to setting? Any thoughts/opinions would be interesting!

Our lower school used to set across the two classes per year for literacy and numeracy from year2 onwards. So the more able went into one class room and the others into another. One Teacher to each. They stopped this last year as 'they could see no evidence of it improving results'.
Now each class of thirty is set within itself on tables according to ability. Mixed ability for all other work.
However interestingly the school was recently inspected and was criticised for not stretching the more able well enough. But heavily praised for its SEN provision and for its work with the less able. I wonder whether if they had kept streaming it might have been easier for the teachers to demonstrate stretching of the more able?
Re August borns my DS2 year 2 (and incidentally his best friend) both born in August are both on top tables for both literacy and numeracy.
since Ofsted the top 6 in each class are removed from normal lessons once a week to do harder numeracy work. So DS misses ICT which I am not too sure about. I wish he could be stretched within the class room so other subjects do not miss out! But I am pleased he is being stretched in numeracy!!,

' The children were on the same table for every subject. I had the mistfortune to be on the stupid table and it was very demoralising. (Ha Ha I got a physics degree now!) '

SNap, except my degree is in PRS LOL

Setting at our school, for numeracy and literacy.

I am pro setting as long as it is

flexible with movement up and down

truly based on the ability of the child (will always remember the teacher who told Mum of course I was meant to be in bottom set, I lived on the estate)

combined with wide inclusion where appropriate- even my autistic son manages to join class for primary level PE.

Not so fond of streaming as my own experience is that it tends to be less flexible; I was given the stark choice in comp GCSE classes between top sets or bottom (good at English, poor at anything number led)- ended up getting good English grades and spending two years mbeing told to make paper planes whilst maths lessons compeltely flew over my head (am now OK at maths and passed MA stats module but the jump from 5th set maths to 3rd with no input was too big)

I think streaming in general is not good - too much labelling and too inflexiable - eg a child is good at maths but not reading etc
setting can see the advatanges - I think in my DS's Y1 they are are going to do some setting for literacy/phonics - there are 2 Y1 classes and one teacher will take some children who need more work on basic phonics and the other will do more - as I understood it - advanced work

Streaming for literacy has downsides. Because you read and write throughout the school day, not just in literacy. And if your class teacher doesn't know what you're working on at the moment in literacy they can't ensure you keep focus on that during afternoon work.

Streaming for maths doesn't have that problem.

So, I'm really not a fan of streaming for literacy, because I've found that if you're not in your teachers stream you don't get pushed appropriately in the afternoon. ( ie in literacy DD is learning full stops, but teacher doesn't know that, so in the afternoon she can get away without using any full stops.

That is why my school has stopped streaming for literacy, but kept maths streams.

(Although they have kept a very low ability stream - which I won't let DD attend )

I am not a fan of streaming at an early age. At our school we set for maths at 7, it's a large year group with a clearly defined top, middle and bottom set/s. Movements tend to be at the start of term and then relatively infrequent.

Research seems to show that the only real benefits are to the top set. Jo Boaler says : 'the set or stream that students are placed into at a very young age will almost certainly dictate the opportunities they receive for the rest of their lives' (1997)

I hope that she's since been proved wrong. This more recent research on streaming in primary maths is interesting (someone posted it here a while back): primary maths

Our school uses sets half way through Y1 (IIRC) onwards, but in a very flexible way - especially in KS1. I don't think dd1 was aware of sets at all until well into Y2, just aware of 'who I sit with for literacy' and 'whose group I'm in for numeracy'. I think this was pretty much true for all her friends, as well.

I spent sometime, as a student, in a Y3 class. Double entry school literacy streamed across the classes. Better 2/3 with the NQT lest able 1/3 with the experienced teacher.
Seemed to work really well. The lower ability group, from both classes, had some very poorly motivated and disruptive elements who benefited greatly from the extra attention available in the smaller group and a skilled teacher being able to concentrate on their needs.
Their other class members and the NQT benefited from time without them. This was especially true for a group of quiet middle ability girls who tended to be over looked and one quite bright, but disruptive lad, who thought it wasn't cool to work. With his two 'partners in crime' in the other room he produced some really good work.

DS has been in 2 state primaries. One which set across yr1/2 for muneracy and literacy and one which didn't. The school which set was way in front in terms of curriculum coverage. In principle and in terms of academic achievement it worked well.

However, with different teachers for each area, job-share form teachers, TA's when it was teachers' planning time etc it meant in yr1 in the course of a week the kids had up to 8 different teachers. There were knock on effects on discipline.

From yr3 seems a more sensible option.

Definitely yes to setting, definitely no to streaming.

Definitely yes to setting, definitely no to streaming.

I agree with this. My school used to stream in years 4,5 and 6 based on the optional SATs results from the end of Y3. It was a nightmare as the top set became unbearable arrogant causing all manner of problems in the playground and the bottom set had no good role models to learn from.

We now set from Y3-6 for maths only and Y6 for Maths and English (with an extra set which is taught by a floating teacher). In the infants, the varying abilities are catered for by differentiation within the class.

Thy do setting at dds school. One class per year.

Can I be nosy and ask how they organise their sets with only one class per year? Do they have additional teachers come in to run sets?

As a parent I am a huge fan of flexible rigorous setting from as early as is practicable.

My dd1 has just started in reception. We haven't been told that they were streamed, but I can't think of any other reason why she would not have been allocated a teacher (choice of 2) until the end of week 3. It really felt like they were sussing them all out for three weeks and then allocating them by ability.

I know lots of parents of children my dd's age (online and irl through nursery) and no-one else had this experience. They all knew who their child's teacher was before the summer holidays even started.

I don't know if I'm in favour or not really. It feels like she's been tested already and she's so young for that. Yet if they all get appropriate level teaching (at both ends of the ability scale) then that feels like a good thing...

The problem with setting/streaming is that there seems to be little fluidity. Therefore, pupils who are doing well in literacy are usually put on the 'top' tables for both numeracy and literacy ,even if they are not strong in both these areas.

Therefore, pupils who are doing well in literacy are usually put on the 'top' tables for both numeracy and literacy ,even if they are not strong in both these areas.

I have to say that I've never seen this to be the case in any school I've worked in. My top M/E groups are usually quite different.

forehead - that isn't the case at dss' school. Only a small minority are in top sets for both numeracy and literacy, although the school has worked incredibly hard on its assessment system so as to keep proper track of the individual children.

At DD1's three form entry primary school they stream upto Year 4. From Year 5 onwards they use setting, but only for Maths. I'm not sure why.

The Maths and English top tables don't necessarily have the same children.

DD was in top set maths and bottom set English at primary school. If she had not had all that extra coaching in spelling, punctuation, etc, she would not be doing as well as she is now. Glad she wasn't streamed.