Uniforms

[Haberdashery]

I'm curious to know what others think of uniforms for primary school children. Does it make your life easier? Do your children like wearing a uniform? Is there a downside? Has it proved expensive for you? And how strictly is your school uniform enforced? Or do your children attend a school without a uniform?

The reason I ask is that our local school which has always been non-uniform is thinking of introducing one and I am quite against it (it's one of the reasons I picked this school).

It seems to me that lots of countries get by fine without uniforms and there doesn't seem to be any sensible evidence that they improve academic outcomes (which I think may be where the school is coming from). I also think that it's nice for children to wear their own comfortable and colourful clothes at school.

But I'm interested to hear from other parents as I've never had a child at a school with a uniform so I don't know what the reality of it is like.

Agree with you, AndiMac - when the whole blazers-and-ties thing comes in for DD next year I will ask in all innocence whether teachers are going to be wearing suits and ties (with jackets on) if male, and skirt/trouser suits (if female). And if the teacher gets to take the jacket off because it is hot, that should be the cue for the students to be allowed to do the same.

And I will always, always hate uniform.

Uniform teaches a pride in your appearance? Really? Even though it is designed to be unflattering and to make the wearer look unattractove stroke shit? How does that one work exactly?

I'm in favour of a cheap and cheerful dress code where everything can be put through the washing machine (except the shoes). A simple dress code rather than a strict uniform has saved me loads of money. Trousers for £4 from M&S, sweatshirts for £4.50 and poloshirts for about £2 each. I spend a lot more than that when I'm buying clothes for DS1 at the weekend.

Do you know what? I've been reading this thread with great attention (I've read the whole thing several times) and I've been thinking and thinking about the whole uniform thing and I think what my reluctance to have one boils down to is that basically I don't want to spend money on clothes that are really not very nice. I just don't even want to spend the minimum on a bunch of stuff that neither I nor DD would ever choose and that does the job of keeping her warm, comfortable and sensibly dressed for her daily activities probably less well and certainly no better than her own clothes. It just feels like a gigantic waste of money to me in a way that spending a bit extra on something that is a really nice garment doesn't. I think I might sound a bit nuts, but there you go.

not nice? my DD looks positively adorable in her grey pinafore, knee high socks and cardi, hair in pigtails!

I'm sure she looks absolutely lovely! But isn't that probably down to her rather than the clothes? And given the choice would either of you honestly have chosen a grey pinafore?

Too right, haberdashery. My DDs look just as lovely in jeans and a T-shirt. Or in a brown paper bag, come to that.

Haberdashery,

It comes down, in the end, to the deeply unfashionable 'common good' argument.

Your DD's own clothes may keep her as warm, comfortable and sensibly dressed as her school uniform would. That is not true for all children, by any stretch of the imagination - many children's clothes are not warm, and certainly not sensible. And at least with school sweatshirts, 'lending' one from the secondhand box to someone who arrives at school without one (lost / parents can't afford to buy one / are only in that school for a few weeks) is 'invisible' to other children while getting "that" jumper from the 'odd spare clothes box' is not.

They may be affordable for you to buy - again, that is not true for all children. Most school uniform is very cheap by the standards of other children's clothes.

They may not interfere with her feeling of 'belonging' to a community - with a very transient population as a significant minority, the 'one of us' effect of uniform is vital in my school.

She may be happy to put on whatever decent and weather-appropriate item you put out for her to wear, and her friends may make absolutely no comment on it. Again, this may well not be true of other children.

And the money is only 'extra' this once, because you have presumably already done the 'winter clothes' outing and got her clothes for the winter. Next year, you will do the 'winter cothes minus uniform' outing and the uniform won't be extra because you will get her fewer winter clothes (or she will NEED fewer clothes - whether you BUY her the same amount or not is up to you)

Haberdashery, I take your point about not wanting to spend money on clothes that are not what you would choose to dress your DD in.

However your most recent post focuses exclusively on the impact of uniform on yourself and your DD.

A number of posters have talked about schools being a community. I don't think you have mentioned why your DDs school is considering implementing a uniform policy. Perhaps they feel that the benefits to the community outweigh the costs to the individual.

Am I the only one who agrees uniforms a good idea, but wishes it wasn't grey!
DDs of to high school next year and the one thing I won't miss is grey uniform to wash it's so nondescript and dull.

I quite like the grey, especially boys trousers, much prefer it to navy or black on little ones, think it looks nice with the white polo shirts.

I LOVE uniform. So much easier and cheaper and the children love it. I feel sorry for the children whose creativity and individualty are stifled by having to wear the same jumper as the person sitting next to them! Mine wear their uniform very happily and are certainly not lacking in indviduality. Maybe creativity, individuality, freedom of spirit are more to do with the experiences your child has and the values you give them than the clothes they wear for a few hours a day.

My lads individuality shows quite clearly while he is on school uniform.. he's the one in long shorts , long socks that meet the shorts and button shirt. All with in the uniform guidelines, but not the most commonly chosen together combo.

Bizarrely I like grey trousers and shorts, I find black too heavy for primary age children. However, I don't like grey pinafores/skirts, it seems too old a colour for primary kids. Fortunately at my kids' school the pinafores and skirts can be either grey or bottle green, so dd has the bottle green. I think that looks so much nicer. :)

I love school uniform. I think the children look great in it, especially the gingham dresses in the summer. I find it really is cheaper than wearing their own clothes. I have about 3 skirts, 3 card'i & 3 shirts for my DD, there is no way she would be happy to wear just 3 different outfits to school if they could wear their own clothes.
I also think their would be too much pressure on kids to have the 'right' clothes even at primary school.
The other consideration, especially with girls is how unsuitable some of their outfits are on non-uniform days. Stupid high heels or flip-flops, the smallest hotpants, little crop tops etc. I would not want my DD seeing those sort of ourfits everyday & wanting to know why she could not have the same. suitable clothes.

Yes, I do see that I am looking at it from a personal point of view rather than from the point of view of the school. I think that the school has no clear idea why it wants a uniform, though, apart from the fact that of a very small number of parents who chose to send their children elsewhere for Reception some mentioned that they would have preferred a uniform and this was part of why they chose another school. There is, btw, already a non-compulsory sweatshirt with logo (about £7) and a logoed polo shirt (about a fiver) for people who prefer to have school clothes separate from home clothes. These are available in about fifteen colours. I see quite a few kids with the sweatshirt on in a whole rainbow of colours but not so many with the polo shirts. I'm guessing they may have spare sweatshirts available for children who are not warmly enough dressed at school, although I have not noticed children wearing inappropriate clothing when I drop my daughter off in the mornings or when I collect her.

This is the only school in the borough without a compulsory uniform. Many of the others have very strict uniforms. I suppose I can't see why there can't be space for a school without uniform as well as the ones with uniform as some parents do see not having a uniform as a plus point.

I don't think the school has a particularly transient population (this is a leafy suburb), though I can absolutely see the value of 'belonging'. Sorry if I sound a bit selfish. I don't mean to be. At the moment we (parents) have been asked to send back a letter and vote on why we want or don't want a uniform. If the majority wants one, of course I will abide by their decision. I'll be interested to see what the outcome is.

I don't like school uniform, because schools can't be trusted to be sensible about it. For instance...

Not allowing girls to wear skirts.
Picking unusual colours/styles which can't be bought cheaply.
Making parents buy logo-ed stuff, twice the price/half the quality of the supermarkets.
Insist on black school shoes, so the poorer kids have to wear black shoes for play/parties as it is the only pair they will have.
Spending too much time enforcing uniform rules, when they could be educating.
Putting appearance before comfort - 5yr olds in stiff shirts and ties.

Also hate the fact that it has to be made of chemical coated synthetics, in order to keep it looking smart. DD's uniform is all cotton and she looks crumpled and scruffy, but polyester triggers her eczema. No such problem with jeans. We have to buy so much uniform as DD always spills her dinner and I refuse to wash uniform everyday and in addition to her ordinary clothes - it's such an unnecessary expense. It's not true that you need fewer ordinary clothes, as there is after school, after school activities, weekends, holidays.

We are lucky that DD's uniform is simple, grey bottoms, red tops, sensible shoes, red/grey/white socks. Logo sweatshirt/cardi/coat if wanted. But I would never choose to dress her in grey and plain colours that show wear/muck so easily.

Haberdashery, our primary was non-uniform for the first 6 years that my dd attended it, none of the problems teacherwith2kids existed. We had a turnover of around 15 - 20% each year with many children moving in and out of the area, mostly from abroad and not staying more than a year or two.

In my experience the theoretical arguments made against school uniform are simply not reflective of the actual experience in a non-uniform school. the only issue in our school was that some parents thought they would have less trouble getting their kids ready for school in the mornings if there was uniform. I think the appropriate remedy for this would have been advice on parenting, not bringing in a uniform.

I hope you don't have to have uniform in your school. Our school is very definitely the poorer for binging in uniform in my view.

so the poorer kids have to wear black shoes for play/parties as it is the only pair they will have.

I'm laughing at this. As you may have gathered from my post up the thread that says that DS has essentially 2 sets of 'non school' clothes and DD has 3ish (polus a skirt), we're not a 'clothes' family. Clothes shopping is a twice a year necessary chore for the children, significantly less than that for me or my husband (he is currently searching for a replacement for his "smart casual" outfit of shirt / trousers / casual jacket - he has had his current version since before we were married 14 years ago!).

You genuinely don't need more than that - the children never change after school, they go to after school activities in the clothes required for that activity or wear school unform and change there (they are in after school club till 5.30 3 days a week anyway). 2 sets of clothes is fine for weekend, especially since DS spends 1 full day in football kit. Holidays we just up the washing to twice weekly, so rather than doing 2 washes at the weekend, we do 1 wash midweek and 1 wash at the weekend (no more washes, just differently distributed).

Both children have 1 pair of black shoes (for school and anything approaching smart e.g. Cubs, Scouts, church, parties) and 1 pair of cheap trainers (for sport and kicking around at weekends and during the holidays) during the winter, and 1 pair of sandals to replace the back shoes in the summer. We are not poor in the sense of 'having to go without food to buy shoes' but we don't 'do' clothes.

Well, we're not poor either but my two have never worn school shoes for anything other than school. They have one pair of trainers each and one pair of sandals, plus crocs for the garden, trainers or sandals have always been fine for parties.

We don't have any of the other problems you have listed either Ixia

Not allowing girls to wear skirts - allowed skirts, dresses or trousers
Picking unusual colours/styles which can't be bought cheaply - no, bottle green, common as anything.
Making parents buy logo-ed stuff, twice the price/half the quality of the supermarkets - no.
Insist on black school shoes, so the poorer kids have to wear black shoes for play/parties as it is the only pair they will have - see above
Spending too much time enforcing uniform rules, when they could be educating - no, they are very relaxed about it
Putting appearance before comfort - 5yr olds in stiff shirts and ties - no, polo shirts here.

I guess this is one of those "neither opinion is wrong" threads where we all have to agree to differ.

DS has one pair of well fitting waterproof(ish) shoes- he wears them for school and most other things besides. The alternatives, trainers, wellys, sandals etc are not as comfy as his black shoes so he tends to chose to wear his black shoes.

I haven't read the whole thread,so don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but its a lot easier for the school when you are on a trip to have your children all in uniform, because it makes rounding them up/keeping a lookout for them so much easier!!

Love uniform - easy. More importantly DS does too. No hassles about what is the "right thing" to wear.

Ridiculous to say that uniform stifles individuality and creativity. They are just clothes after all. In fact it can make the children more creative as they can forget about their clothing and concentrate on the day ahead of them.

As for individuals, oh yes, there are 30 individuals in my DS's uniform wearing class! They are expressive, creative, and opinionated.

In most cases non-uniform primary aged children are also wearing a uniform of sorts, one imposed by the adult buying their clothes. So much for creativity!

zombie thread