9 year old daughter being left out at school

[Alessia38]

Hi everyone! I am a newbie so please forgive any mistakes. I?ll go straight to the point. My 9 year old DD is having a tough time in school since starting Y5. She was very popular in Y4 and was well liked , that was pointed out at parents evenings and even reflected on school report where it was mentioned she was a natural leader. But since starting school four weeks ago her former group of friends are freezing her out, as they all follow the leader of the pack and for some reason it seems she?s decided my DD won?t join their group anymore. There is a lot of competition from the other girls to join the popular clique so nobody really helps my DD as they are all fighting to for a spot, so her breaks and lunch times are mostly spent on her own. What has really upset me is the fact that she has been telling me lies about playing with other girls and also saying that certain girls apologized to her for being mean, and none of this was true. She has mentioned that when she is paired with another girl in class most of them clearly show their disappointment. I haven?t contacted the school yet following advice from my husband who is a Head Teacher (not in DDs school) but I am surprised they haven?t noticed anything. DD is a high achiever, very lively and funny and always happy but I am concerned this is affecting her confidence. We live quite a way from school so she never really socialised with her school friends during weekends or holidays, but she has a group of friends where we live who she plays with everyday and at weekends , and they all get along very well, play in each other?s houses and even go out together with parents, so that is a relief but she is still sad as she spends so much time in school on her own. I was left out in school many times and I was very shy so I wonder whether I am worrying too much. I would appreciate any comments on this as I have started to lose sleep and I feel very anxious.

Thanks

I think you answered your own question...The summer holidays happened and all the other girls may of played together and yours was not there.

Do you live very far away from the other girls could you have a girly tea or Halloween party and get them all together again?

Maybe arrange a swimming trip or something. Or a sleepover?

If you want your daughter to have friends from school and you live too far away from school you will have to put some effort into arranging things.

Children can be very fickle.

Why do you live far away from school?

We live far away from school as we have moved from a different city and then different area (it is a bit complicated, has to do with husband's job). It sounds a good idea to organise something, but not sure it will work, having had friends in similar situations it is their experience they kind of tried to buy their friendship and the situation did not improve when back in school.

You sound very negative TBH. Why don't you give the ideas a go and see what happens.
I also think your DH is wrong. My DD has always been at DHs school, if there was ever any trouble with her I went to her teacher.
She isn't at his school any more, but I would still make her teacher my first port of call. The teacher can have a low key chat about inclusion and being kind to others etc.

Wanabees/wannabes

Thanks everyone. Will try to be more positive and def talk to teacher.

The problem could be that she'a a natural leader & doesn't like playing second fiddle to somebody else. I would talk to her about what she wants in a friend & what she offers as a friend, There will be some nice girls in the class & even if they are less "popular" may be better friends. I would encourage her towards them, I had this with dd2 last year but was able to sort it by telephoning one of the girls mum before taking it to teacher level. She is now back with her original friends who were hangers on in the popular group. (I suspect they had a bit much of being bossed around!!!)) In the meantime she played with people from other classes & the quieter girls.

I agree with laptoplove - quite possibly, some of the girls in your DD's former group saw a lot of each other outside school during the summer holidays and have matured socially together and cemented their friendship.

My DD (who is not yet 7) had several good friends that she hung out with last year. However, she saw a lot of one particular girl during the summer holidays and has sleepovers and playdates with outside school. The friendship goes from strength to strength. I do actually think it is really important for children to see one another outside school in order for the friendships to blossom, and I can see why some children are "social outcasts" because they live too far from school to fully participate in social life and mature within the group.

Hi Bonsoir. I would not call my daughter a social outcast at all as she was very popular before summer hols and we lived in same place! Also some of the girls live far from each other and I know for a fact they do not socialise outside school apart from bday parties which my DD also attends. I really do not think this is the issue here. She had a much better day today and is now playing with her neighbourhood friends. Thanks for you comment

I was going to say pretty much exactly what RedHelen said. My dn, also 9, is in a similar situation although she is not the one being left out. Tbh, they all had just about had enough of one girl who was described as 'popular and a leader' (roughly translated by my dn as bossy and has to have everything her way..)

The other girls decided to do their own thing and if the 'leader' wanted to join in - but join in in the true sense of the word - that was fine. But she sulked. She cried. She's pissed off.

I'm not saying this is your daughter, it may be miles wide of the mark, but it's a possibility. Do you know any of the other girls' Mums/Dads well enough to ring and just have a chat about it? Not in a defensive or negative way, just a chat?

When I was teaching in a primary school, Year 5 was also notorious as a year when girls started to be really horrible, catty and spiteful to each other. We always used to think it was the hormones starting to kick in pre-puberty. Sorting out the issues used to drive the Y5 teacher demented require lots of patience and persistence on behalf of the Y5 teacher!

sarahfreck that's really interesting - my DD was in Y5 last year, and it was very obvious that all the girly dynamics were suddenly kicking in. Made me realise that Y5 was also when I'd had problems at school. So far Y6 is much better.

Whenever my DD has had problems I've tried to normalise the situation by saying that most people at some point have these kinds of issues - it doesn't mean there's anything wrong or different about her, it's just life and she should go and play with someone else until it blows over. I've tried to stop her getting the idea that she's a victim basically. So far it seems to be working.

I think it could be just the Year 5 problem too. DD1 has just started Year 5 and the past two days has been in tears over being left out at playtime. I think the girls are forming small, closed cliques and old friendships are breaking up as a result. She said she tries to join in but it's obvious that each group doesn't want her there. She is trying to join her old friends but each one seems to be pairing up with a different girl, the latter of whom doesn't want dd to join (and the old friends don't want to say anything cos the new friend is more important to them!). It's complicated and I feel really :( for my dd. I'm hoping that she'll find her own clique soon too (much as I detest the idea).

In my experience (9yr old daughter, p5 but would be yr 5 in England), getting friends back to play etc. doesn't necessarily improve the situation. It can be a hit and a miss.

We moved her to a new school (because we moved from England to Scotland) and she has had similar issues in both schools. I would say when she was younger it was actually worse.

She doesn't like being bossed around and so sometimes steps back from the popular group. When she was younger I use to have friends back as felt she was occassionally ostracised. When the going got rough again, these same girls would then still stick in with the popular crowd, because they wanted to be friends with Queen B and didn't have the courage or inclination to befriend my daughter instead.

Also, when it happened to other girls I would try and encourage Dd to befriend whoever was ostracised at that particular time, but don't think she really did.

Since she has went back to school she has not played with the Queen B at all. Her and another friend have stuck together every day and now there are another couple playing with them. For some reason, think she has got a tad more mature (as much as a 9 yr old can be) and has told me she will not ever play with Queen B, and if on occassions she has to play by herself because of it, so be it. I have asked her if Queen B has done anything to her, or vice versa, and she is adamant she hasn't. She just thinks Queen B and crowd stand around talking etc. and she wants to run about instead.

I am not sure that having friends back cements friendships or not. In my experience it makes no difference.

If I felt my daughter was playing herself everyday and it lasted more than two weeks I would talk to her teacher.

I also think that as the girls get older the Queen B's lose some of their appeal and girls no longer gravitate towards them as much.

Hopefully some of the girls following the leader about will soon start to move away from her a bit. I am sure a general talk from the teacher to all the girls will help this process along.

I had to talk to Dd's teacher last year as Dd got school to ask me to pick her up. I knew she was fine, as asked her and she said yes. I then had to talk to the teacher as couldn't take her home knowing she was faking it.

Teacher spoke to them all, and they all played together again.

ugh, I sympathise, Y5 girls are a nightmare at times.

I am a Y5 tutor and I have already had 2 breaktime 'friendship coaching' sessions with the girls from all 3 Y5 classes - 4 weeks into term!

They leave each other out, spread rumours about each other, send each other unpleasant texts and emails ... then burst into tears when the same thing happens to them!

I would speak to her teacher if if continues. My girls are very malleable and easily cajoled and joked into seeing how silly their behaviour is. I am under no illusions that I fix their issues for the long term but I would rather know about problems as they occur and be continually sorting out small things than wait for something huge to blow up in their faces.

year 5 is the WORST ime.

What do you think it is about Y5 that makes it so tricky?

Someone once told me that at 8/9 girls have a hormonal surge which makes them very moody and over sensitive. Anecdotal evidence would support this! It seems to subside at about 11 then come back with a vengeance at 13+!!!

My daughter had a miserable Year 4, but a much better year 5 and (so far) a lovely year 6. My older one never really had any bad times until last year in Year 9, which made up for that with a vengeance.

OP I feel for you, it is hard when they go through this: especially so when until very recently they seemed to be happy and at ease with everyone, perhaps. Get the Queen Bees and Wannabes book, grit your teeth and keep remembering that it will pass. I was thinking the other day that if someone could have shown me Year 6 when my daughter was in Year 4, I wouldn't have believed the difference - it would have been so reassuring though. Same will be true for your daughter, I am sure.

Hi Alessia 38

I agree with many that there is something that happens around Y5 - and 'clicks' start to form and a strong urge to 'fit in' and 'not stand out' drives relationships.

One major solution, is to ensure that you DD has friends/ activities outside of school. It is very helpful to have a wide social life (with cousins/ family/ neighbours/ friends from clubs, ballet, swimming, etc...). In this way, it is possible to ensure that they understand that 'school' is only one part of life and there is life beyond school.

Hang in there.

I have a very similar situation with dd who is in year 4. Her best friend moved recently and dd is now being left out. She is not much interested in playing with one group who is dominated by a very bossy girls and is actively frozen out by another group which is dominated by a girl who seems to orchestrate some campaign against dd which included telling lies about her, whispering about her, more or less instructing the other girls in her group to ignore her when she tries to join in, etc.

I'm finding it a very difficult situation to deal with - am trying all the strategies of making sure she does not feel like a victim, inviting lots of children back, I've spoken to the teacher, etc. I'm hoping it will blow over. So not much help from me, but my sympathies!

They can be vile and hormonal at this stage. But it does help if you do out of school things with the girls. Sort of dampens it down. It also helps to do things out of school with OTHER girls to raise self-esteem.