Shouls teachers shout at children ?

[RosemaryandThyme]

My y2 DS came home from school today and burst into tears, seems his TA had shouted at him during a lesson for being too noisy.
This has happend twice before with the same TA and he now feels very uncomfortable going back to school.
Thing is I do sympathise with the TA, he is a very noisy, talk before you think type child at home and I can see that at school staff may well get exasperated.
I don't know how to get him to quiet down, or how/if to appraoch it with the school.
Thanks for your thoughts.

You need to have a meeting with the teacher, not the TA to discuss your son's behaviour and effective strategies to stop him disrupting the class and affecting the learning of everyone else in the room.
Shouting is inappropriate, but she may have raised her voice and projected over him rather than yelling.
Either way, he's Y2 and needs to start taking some responsibility for his egocentric and inconsiderate behaviour. So the teacher should be working with you on that, creating positive and proactive ways to discipline him.
Did he understand why the TA was cross, had he been given prior warnings that his behaviour was unacceptable in that session? Do they have some sort of smiley face/sad face sunshine/cloud display to give children a visual reminder? What worked last year?

I would ask to meet with the class teacher (not TA) to discuss issues you believe they have been having with his behaviour and to come up with strategies both school and home can use with him.

No a teacher shouldn't shout, but kids perceive being shouted at when they have not (witness my teenagers on certainly a weekly basis). However also teacher are human, and TAs are often under trained.

When my children were that age they interpreted any firm telling off as "shouting at me". It could be that the TA was not quite as loud as you imagine but that your son is upset because he feels embarrassed at having misbehaved. I would probably be quite brisk about it "oh dear, well next time you'll have to remember not to be noisy then, won't you". And maybe have a quiet openminded word with the teacher/TA to see if they have any particular concerns with his behaviour.

A TA should never shout at a child. Whether or not she did of course we'll never know.

But I think you should talk to the teacher and tell her that your child came home upset. Find out what's really happening, what she's going to do about it, and what she'd like you to do about it.

Hi Rosemary,
Getting a chatterbox to quieten down is a tough one - I know! Before ds1 year 2 goes into school we have a pep talk. [Do this on way to school/ going out of door]. Involves saying what he must remember not to do and what to do. He quotes it at me now - I must try not to interrupt. I must put my hand up and try and talk at the right times etc. Also 'sometimes it is best to just THINK something and not say it' [tough one!]. I must try not to get distracted and try to do my best etc.

He enjoys this mantra now and it is done very quickly. Not sure if it works. I think it does some times. Still have plenty of time on walk to hop, skip and jump etc and of course don't do it in front of other people/ kids!
Good luck...

Just a quick extra - some teachers are happier with chatty boys than others. My ds had teacher last year who clearly thought he was a chatty pain. [On sad board a lot for it]. This years teacher says how lovely and enthusiastic he is.
[Not on sad board yet - famous last words].

No teachers should not (have to) shout.

No children should not be so noisy the teacher feels she needs to.

I'd do as others have suggested and meet with the teacher (not the TA) and discuss what can be done to improve your son's behaviour.

In my experience, sometimes a calculated shout is very effective. Ds's Ht is very good at this. But an out of control shout is often counter productive. If, on occasion, understandable!

In an ideal world teachers and TAs (and parents) should not shout at children. Also, in an ideal world children should listen to adults and hence to their teachers and TAs.

I don't agree that you necessarily should speak to the teacher about it and if you do, I would not tell your son as it undermines the TA/teacher. I would tell your son that he has to listen to his teacher and TA and show little sympathy for the fact that he felt upset. If he knows that you go and speak to the teacher he could interpret that as the TA being in the wrong and as endorsement of his feelings/behaviour and you want to avoid that.

"being too noisy"

Might be worth finding out exactly how noisy!

Teachers/TAs should if course not shout. But the exceptions are: imminent danger, distance (across a sports field, for example), or to cut across a racket when there is no possible chance that an ordinarily raised voice will be heard.

So, yes, go in and find out what happened, but be ready for the possibility that a) the event was not as described (did you see the recent thread about the naughty chair?) and b) the noise was such that shouting was indicated.

Teachers and any school staff,helpers etc shouldnt shout, but they are only human, and sometimes they just get angry, frustrated, annoyed, whatever just like other people do.

If your child came home upset, then maybe this might make him aware that he does need to make an effort and be less noisy in the classroom and that if he continues to be noisy or disruptive he will be shouted at again. Noise is for outside not inside.

Instead of complaining to the teacher, you need to have long chats with your son about discipline and behaviour in the classroom.

If the TA continues to shout and continously upsets your son, do talk to the teacher. Probably even worth having a chat anyway so you understand what the problems are from teacher point of view. Some people are just shouty but schools need to be aware if it is causing problems for children

I think teachers and TAs have to raise their voice to be heard sometimes. That can be interpreted by a child as shouting.

I agree with what Cory said & she said it so well I have nothing to add :)

Thanks so much for the practical advice.

Today I was a parent helper on the class trip to the farm and twice the same TA told different children off - the told-off children quivered, as did the children around them and I could really see how the children then go home and describe it as shouting - when it really was just a firm, instructive, voice - timely and not at all over-reacting or anything untoward.
It was so clear that the childrens views were -as Cory said- embaressed at having misbehaved.
At lunchtime I did have a good, informal chat with the TA explaining that I found it hard at home to quiet him down / get his attention she felt he was fine in class (generally) but did need to learn not to talk over others and to be a team player - the think someting and not say it ! - perfect thanks 2Boys.
It was also very clear to me that he has an exceptinally loud voice even when he is talking normally - you can hear him and only him from across a field - he wasn't shouting, just talking to the farmer.
At supper we had a go at playing chinese whispers - his whispering voice is a normal level voice, he couldn't actually lower his voice or "get" whispering at all - am thinking ths is quite odd - would most six year olds be able to whisper ??

Yes, 6 year olds can whisper.

Also, have you had his hearing checked recently? Just a thought.

Good point Fairenuff - no haven't had hearing checked since he was a baby - will get onto this.

You say he is really loud, but also remember that mums tune in to their own child and can only hear their own child in a group, so may be he isnt really the noisiest.

sorry just read the bit about he cant whisper. Something to practice?

Yes, 6 year old's can whisper. Some ( sad to relate mostly girls!) turn it into an art form

Yes definately need to look into getting some voice control going with him, definately something to practice. Am embaressed to admit we are quite a noisey household, not in terms of shouting just lots of people and general noise level - might need to tone it down a bit at home too....

Sounds like you're dealing with this brilliantly, OP. Those loud-voiced boys are a bit of an embarrassment: I have one myself, though he is getting better. Maybe all those years of murmuring "volume control" are paying off.

I'd definitely check his hearing though: the loudest boy in ds' class turned out to have glue ear.

And when I went in to speak to a teacher once whom ds was very afraid of due to his shoutiness I found that he was hard of hearing: he wasn't shouting at all, just speaking in a very booming voice, because he couldn't hear.