Private school visit

[mammanbebe]

Hi mums..I am new to MN.My DS has just started reception in a local state school and i was planning to consider private options at the end of year 1 or 2. I went to visit a private school today and was surprised to see the kids doing addition in reception!! Its still early days and i thought reception is all about learning through play? Do all private schools start formal learning right from day 1 in reception?
Would like to know what the real difference is between a good state school and a good private school in terms of academics..TIA.

seeker I understand that at a prep school I am paying for the extras but the OP wanted an understanding of the differences I am just saying the ones I see. Oh and at reception age I am not paying as my DD goes to a state school, will go to prep at Yr3 BUT I know at the state school that there are no free after school clubs (they all cost at least 20 pounds for 6 weeks) and then there is all the extra money they ask for for this and that, last year when DS was in Yr2 we must have spent at least 300 pounds on our free education !! Since when did an independent person need to come in to teach football etc why can a teacher not do this and why can the state schools not fit a PE lesson into their time more than once a week (for 30mins)? They could when I went to school why can't they now?

Mamma he will do well if he joins at YR 3 my 3 have I wouldn't worry too much. My DD is fed up with play but then as DC4 she is older than her age. I will stop arguing with seeker all over your thread, you can see some people have issues with private on here and it turns into a bun fight.

To be honest, I would expect to see the older, more able children in a state Reception class doing this towards the end of the year.

Sorry, meant to add, maybe the children you saw were the older children and had been through the Kindergarten, so were known to be ready for it.

I'm sure they have time to play as well!

amistillsexy,There were 24 in a class and all of them were doing the same workbook,sure there must be some little ones as well

Helenagrace My DD2 is at a state primary with a very mixed intake. She has just started Y4. At the end of Y3, several of her classmates, including her, were at level 4. There are good private schools and bad ones, there are good state schools and bad one, don't just assume that going to a private school means you are buying a better education. All you are buying for certain is smaller class sizes and the company of other children whose parent's can afford the fees.

Parents. Stupid autocorrect and its grocer's apostrophes.

24 in a class! I wouldn't pay for that I'm afraid. I'd want sub 20 at least.
Also I do know State schools with swimming pools, lots with on site clubs. And Prep school boys still doing their homework/prep at 9 pm.

Yes I would also say 24 in a class is too many at a Prep and a maximum of 20 is the norm up to age 11. Maybe slightly more age 11 - 13 and beyond.

Obviously different children have different needs and some schools are better at catering for one particular type of child over another. You have to look at your own children and assess their own needs.

My children probably would have loved more formal learning straight away and less learning through play, as that would have suited the way they like to learn a bit better, but learning through play hasn't killed them or irreperably stunted their intellectual development and it has helped them become better socialisers and team workers. They are, in any event, bright enough that they only need to be taught a concept once to understand and apply it and frankly by half a term into reception would have found it rather boring to be asked to do numerous simple addition sums on paper, because simple addition is not exactly difficult. I wouldn't, therefore, be looking to formal learning as an automatically better system, I would be looking to see whether the school could differentiate sufficiently for my children so that they didn't get bored or separated permanently from their peers to work with older children, something which my dss' state primary appeared to be reasonably capable of doing (and at least with learning through play, if the academic learning bit is a bit beneath you, at least you still get to play!...).

Basically, I know my children will be at least 2 years above the average by the end of year 6 without having had to pay for school fees - not because their school churns lots of children out like this, because it isn't that middle class, but because my children are who they are. Maybe if they went to a highly academic private school, they would end up 4 years above the average, but I'm not sure that's worth the sacrifices we'd have to make to send both of them to private prep schools, or possibly the sacrifices in free time they would have to make. And in many private schools they might come out the other end no better off academically, or possibly worse off academically and in other ways, because not all private schools are particularly good, whereas my dss' primary school is, in my opinion, lovely! I'd love the class sizes to be smaller, of course, but at least they've got lots of potential friends to choose from, live in the community where they go to school, have committed teachers and a well thought out and stimulating curriculum. Oh, and a very clear understanding of how lucky they are.

"holding them back 'to play' instead of formal learning is a waste."

!!!

A waste of what, exactly?

just to say my DS had had enough of pre-school but was more than happy at reception

A waste of time, of course, Gubbins. Life isn't about play - they should jolly well either be learning to read, write and do maths in rows at their desks, in preparation for starting Latin and Greek in year 1 and history of the British Empire in year 2, or be put into domestic service. I would say going down the mines and working in the cotton mills, but we don't have many of those any more, unfortunately. Play rots the brain.

"All you are buying for certain is smaller class sizes and the company of other children whose parent's can afford the fees."

And, crucially,, the of those children whose parents can't!

JeanBodel-*I would just like to clarify that NOT all private schools are selective.

The one to which I'd like to send my kids has no selection criteria. Apart from having huge wheelbarrows of cash*

My Dcs went to a similar prep school, in fact it was a big part of the reason they went. As summer borns I didn't want them slogging throught the over accelerated NC in reception.

And yo don't think the requirement to have huge wheelbarrows of cash is somehow selective?

So some people send their children to private school because they don't want them to waste time in Reception playing, and some do it because they don't want them slaving away at the accelerated National Curriculum in Reception?

No not all private schools are that formal from day one. Many do learning through play at first.

And not all are selective too of course but do prepare the children for the exams at the next level (ie getting into selective schools).

I think that many people select where their children go to school. Unless everyone literally just walks out of the door and send their child to the closest eligible.
If that is what you have done then bang away. But if you looked at league tables or studied options such as courses, pastoral care, results etc, or if you delight in a wealth of fantastic local state schools then there is just a smear of hypocrisy
I quite understand why people object to private schools. But the piety does get a bit nauseating.

If there was a decent girls school on my doorstep that did loads of sport as part of the school day I would be right in there. But there isn't. So I am very very lucky to be able to get that for her.

pagwatch I could have written your post . Well said.

The vast majority of people cannot select where their child goes to school. The vast majority send their child to the nearest school because they lack the means , the knowledge, the time, the leisure, the inclination qor the transport to do anything else.

seeker, do you really think the 'vast majority' of parents have no inclination to choose anything about their dc's school at all? really? no applying for grammar schools? no putting 1, 2 or 3 next to choices on the application form? no worrying over the fact that the nearest school is a 'sink' school, and the one that they want their child to go to is oversubscribed? no angst over catchment areas?

I think you vastly overstate the case, tbh.

and other than that, I agree with pagwatch.

They may have the inclination, but if you read my post you will see that I list some of the many things that get in the way of most people actually selecting a school.

Pagwatch completely agree. Well said.

As a private school parent I'm happy to take criticism from anyone who has genuinely sent their child to the bog standard nearest school. I will not entertain criticism from anyone who has moved house to get a better catchment, found God to get into a church school or tutored for an entrance exam to a state grammar.

And all of those people have cause to be indignant about that should they feel it unfair. But I am not sure how many of them are on here lecturing about choice?

My point is that lots of people do chose don't they?
And people who are able to chose do so for a variety of reasons.

Having a discussion about that, even a heated passionate one is good. I used to argue almost daily with my dad about this. It is possible.

But wrapping everyone who choses private education into a bundle of snobby people indifferent to any social need or inequality, as selfish and heartless and boorish is fatuous.
It negates many of the sensible objections raised because it is just stereotyping and name calling and it seems to be done often in order to make the person feel better about themselves.

To take some arrogant moralising holier than thou attitude towards a whole swathe of people is stupid not least because it just entrenches views and turns the whole thing into an exercise in hyperbole and tit for tat name calling.
It is absoloutely as bad as the posters who say that people choosing state school are making a lesser choice - another stupid stereotype.

I chose private education for my child. That does not make me less than someone who choses state. It does not make me selfish or snobby or disinterested in people poorer than me or any other one of the snidy stereotypes thrown out on these threads.

The extreme posters on both sides just always make these threads ridiculous.

And it is always because they think they are better than everyone else. Always.

Life is filled with shit choices. We are usually just doing our best for our kids.