Ds is getting told off because he can't concentrate

[GloriaVanderbilt]

Ds1 is 8, and I'm not sure if he has some kind of processing issue, but that aside (as it will take a long time to diagnose/resolve, I suspect) I feel concerned at how this is being handled in school.

He just began yr4 and obviously there is more written work, it's harder, etc.

He's not dim, he has a really high IQ but he is very slow. He came to me and said he is really worried because he keeps getting told off. I said what for, and he said it's when he's got to answer written questions - they aren't particularly hard as such but he looks at them, and can't make his brain work.

So he pulls a face, squirms around in his seat, puts his hands up to his head in frustration...he got told off for this. No one helped.
The supply teacher they have on Fridays did offer, apparently, to let him sit at the front or in a corner where it's quieter.

I don't know what this means, why he is finding it hard to process this stuff (I know the feeling - it took me about a year to read secret seven adventure when I was his age, because every paragraph I read, I couldn't take it in so I had to go back over it again and again...I still don't really read books, but somehow I managed to achieve highly in school)

or mainly, what the school or I can do to help him. He's the same at home, if you ask him to put on his shoes, he will have to walk round in circles, kick a chair repeatedly, swing between the sofas five times, turn round again, find some Pokemon cards and get completely distracted before I ask him to do it again. This can go on for an hour.

HELP

Not at all gloria I developed coping stratedgies in school and when diagnosed at 16yo I mentioned it to my old English teacher (bro and sis still at school and had gone in for some event!) and his reply was 'I'm not surprised' Well Ta very much.

My DS has just started year 3. He got 2B reading/writing (yr 2) so although it's a struggle he could do what needed to be done iyswim? His reading is also slow and steady. I do worry that now is the time he'll fall behind as others make more progress but I am spending time supporting him as much as I can.

It helps I'm dyslexic so can 'teach'/ help in a way that I get it. There is no concerns atm except his Infant school yr2 teacher did say she'll be suggesting the juniors keep an eye on him.

He got level 3 maths and science so is doing well but does highlight the difference with his literacy. DS told me he's the only child in the whole class whose top group maths and bottom group Literacy. Up to now he doesn't seem to have noticed/ hasn't mentioned abilty in groups but I guess they learn/ notice at some point.

Sorry opening line made no sense

I meant not at all as in don't apologise your post made perfect sense and Ikwym.

hmmmm, my DS 9 sounds similar.

I had him tested and it came out there is nothing "wrong", no auditory processing difficulty, no dyslexia. He is a "victim" of the dreaded "low level disruption" and cannot concentrate in his class of 35, with 2 children who have problems and being noisy and disruptive who don't have to sit down and are allowed to wander, play games, and shout. He finds it all way too interesting to be able to focus.

Had lots of chats with the teacher, she asked if he listened at home. I said "yes", but he gets very distracted.

having to repeat instructions is annoying for both of us. Same problem as you with shoes putting on (but not a whole hour, though it feels like that!).

I find a proper ROUTINE in the morning helps. I allocate 20 minutes for getting dressed though. After breakfast it is teeth, then uniform, the brushing hair, then shoes. He is not allowed to touch toys or talk to his brother whilst doing this.

It's getting better! And we did move schools, as he just could not cope with the big class and low level disruption (some other things happened as well), he just could not concentrate.

Have just scanned rest of thread but you could have been describing my son, re behaviour in class this last year. Teacher wanted to get him assessed for behavioural issues but said that with the long waiting list it could take two years. Though I genuinely believed there was nothing wrong and the problem was the teacher I got him
privately assessed by an educational psychologist. It turns out he is dyslexic. He had been able to mask it by learning off the reading. His test scores at school in literacy were low average because his comprehension is good, and his maths are brilliant. We are waiting for the full report so we know how best to teach him. I now feel guilty that we did not spot this before and that he knew something was wrong but couldn't tell us. My advice is to get him assessed just in case. It is the best money I've ever spent.

Oh I am sorry for those of you going through similar battles. It sounds like an assessment would benefit ds.

I tried to talk to his class teacher this morning. she wasn't having it. As soon as I said what had happened with the homework, she nodded and interrupted with 'organisation skills' as though it was something he was being lazy about.

She wouldn't listen after that and walked off. I thought, no, don't you dare ignore me and interrupt me. So I caught her as she was going in, a minute later, and said 'Look I don't think it's just being disorganised. I think he has a processing issue'. She was like 'yeah yeah [face palm]' and I said 'I think I should talk to the senco about it' and she said 'Not Necessary' and walked off again very quickly.

I'm a bit cross.

Gloria, do you think it would help to put what you have said here in writing, and send it as an email (or letter if they don't do email) to ds's teacher, copied to the Head (and/or SenCo as you feel appropriate)?

We've found that it is a much better strategy when things are going a bit pearshaped - its easier for you to explain fully what you mean, and also easier for the teacher to sit and focus on the specific problem that you are asking about (rather than a conversation getting distracted/derailed by other issues).

Coping to the HT/SenCo is a bit of a blunt instrument, but can be glossed as 'for their information/just to keep them informed).

Gloria my DS has similar problems. He is classed as "gifted" at his school, but they were concerned that he just couldn't concentrate on tasks in school, and wouldn't complete tasks in the given time, even though he was more than capable. We were referred to the school doctor, and she found that DS has immature gross motor skills, and that his joints were slightly hyper-mobile. She said that this was something that would correct itself, but that it can make it difficult for a child to sit still and concentrate, as they find it hard to feel comfy and secure in one space.

The school found that using prompt cards helped my DS to move from one task to another, by embedding routine in his memory. Also, they gave him an egg-timer so that he could break work down into 10 minute chunks. At home, I find keeping a definite routine really helps him, and giving him quiet space to do his homework, but checking on him every 10 minutes or so and breaking the tasks down into manageable chunks. He also attends a group at school each week to work on his motor skills through games etc, which is run by the school learning support teacher. All these things have really helped. I hope that you can get some support in place for your DS, because I understand the worry it causes when you feel that the school think your DS has a "problem".

thankyou very much. Bambam I like the souind of how you are managing the homework while alllowing him to do it independantly as well.

My Dad suggested he needs his own space...trouble is we only have two bedrooms so there's nowhere ds2 can't access. Thinking of letting him have my tiny room and sleeping on the sofa.

Takver, maybe I should put it in writing...I still think she will be as dismissive as possible. She seems thoroughly arrogant. Thankfully she's leaving in a few months on ML so we'll get the helpful supply teacher who was interested in helping ds, not just making him pull his socks up and get with it.

Reserving judgment for time being as she MIGHT have a way of making him cope - but he's changed his mind about her within a week and is afraid of her now. Poor chap. she's really harsh.

Gloria, don't catch the teacher on the hop, instead ask for a proper meeting with her and the SENCO to discuss your worries.

If she is being dismissive, and things don't improve after a few weeks in the class, I would definitely be inclined to put things in writing, copy to the HT, and ask for a formal meeting in my letter.

Thanks...might be worth a try though I have a feeling she will just say no!

I might approach the senco actually as I know her, she's dotty but she's nice and will try to help.

Stuff being ignored. I don't see how this woman - who has known my son for about 2 weeks - can say with utter confidence that it's not necessary to speak to the senco. It's nothing to do with her really. So I think I will do it anyway.

Thanks for all your encouragement and suggestions. I really appreciate it.

Small update:

I managed to grab the senco today, told her wnat my concerns were and she said she had spoken to the specialist teacher (whom she knows well) a few months ago and they had discussed ds briefly...that surprised me!

She said she is seeing her again soon and will ask her opinion again. Meanwhile she is going to do the test on ds, not the long specialist test we had before but just the one she uses in school - a classmate of ds's was 'diagnosed' a few months ago using it.

I'm keen to get any recognition we can of his issues, it will be a little peace of mind one way or the other. If nothing's found to be wrong, well I'll just wait for his concentration to improve. If he does have some problems then he might not get told off once they know about them.

Win-win, hopefully.

Thanks again everyone...glad I ignored the class teacher.

Good luck.

This sounds very much like Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) which is a listening disability, which for children can have a genetic cause or can be acquired via a severe Ear Infection such as Otitis Media with Effusion (Glue Ear)

Dyslexia is a man made problem, a Social Construct, about having cognitive issues decoding and recoding a man made communication system the visual notation of speech, or the graphic symbols society chooses to represent the sounds of speech. Dyslexia is also language dependent.
Developmental Dyslexia has a genetic origin , and have three cognitive subtypes: auditory, visual, and attentional. Which means that an auditory processing disorder, a visual processing disorder, an attention disorder, or a some combination of the three can cause the dyslexic symptom. Which in turn means that the underlying causes of the dyslexic symptom can only be clinically diagnosed by an audiologist, an optometrist and a psychiatrist, depending on which type of clinical disability causes the dyslexic symptom.

Those who have these types of invisible disability begin to develop alternative compensating abilities from birth or when ever they subconsciously became aware of their information processing deficit, and a lack of understanding and support from those around them can eventually end up as in the case of DH in avoiding stressful situations even to the extent of lying to avoid these stressful and sometimes impossible to cope with situations. Those who have a high IQ are very good a developing coping strategies, which means that they are good at hiding the true nature of their disabilities especially on good days, but they, like me, fail terribly on bad days.

Running coping strategies to compensate for these types of deficit has to be done using the working memory. Working memory has limited capacity, just like the RAM of a computer, and in to run the coping strategy program some other programs have to shut down to make way so that our working memory does not crash. This is usually our self organisational and time awareness programs. Working memory is prioritised subconsciously, so we are not able to switch coping strategies on or off when we need them, and or coping strategies take second place to coping with stress or illness.

The big problem is the lack of understanding in schools who frame all this issues in term of behavior, or laziness, which is due tot their lack of understanding of the variations in cognitive skills strengths weaknesses, deficits and disabilities, which currently woulds appear to be outside of their training and completely outside of their understanding of childrens educational needs, and this system of ignorance only re-enforced by the reliance on Educational Psychologists who are only qualified to comment on behavior issues and not qualified to assess and diagnose the issues which cause these types of problems.

I'm watching this with keen interest, ds1 (5 and just started yr1) had all kinds of difficulty last year, school failed to recognise (or didn't know how to deal with) his poor hearing, he was observed 3 times at school and once at home by EP, I got hearing services involved, they confirmed how poor his hearing was, it was all glue ear related and he had gromits in March, since then he has come on leaps and bounds - funnily enough SENCO isn't having EP or asking for any extra support (last year they wanted him assessed for ASD) I'm not saying there might not be something else apart from hearing but I think this was a major issue.

He struggles to concentrate and just get started on a task. I rarely hear from him about what he has done at school. His class teacher is still doing her own assessment (I totally get she needs to get to know him) and is definitely approaching this as though ds is attention seking and pushing the boundaries - he isn't distruptive but like you say just faffs around rather than getting on with stuff ie writting exercise will sharpen pencil, draw a line, write name, go to toilet, rub out name and when questioned gives lots of reasons why he can't do it - boring, don't want to, no point etc and ends up staying (or being threatened with staying) in at break time (I sanctioned this before that he is being 'punished' ) when he stays in he doesn't need help to complete the task he does get on with it and is focussed - his friends aren't there and its quiet.... I'm not sure what 'level' he is at but he is doing it as soon as its done he can go and play so he's motivated to do it

He is a bit wrapped up in his own world - centre of his universe and can not understand why he must wait to say something if he has an idea to share. I'm in a dilema about how to handle him at home to support them at school, make him wait his turn (he has 2 younger brothers) but then I expect him to up to it when I ask him to do something?!? He has a very strong sense of justice and its all about his choices and it being fair.

gloria how was your ds earlier in school? has this always been a 'problem'?

dolfrog your post hits a cord especially with the history of severe glue ear, do you know of any strategies to help with APD? I found lots online about glue ear last year (Communication tips for Teachers) which I gave to them (at risk of teaching them to suck eggs but I thought it would be important especially when they made him sit at back of class because he couldn't sit still as he just couldn't hear) I keen home doesn't become a battle especially if he just can't do it, part of me just wants to 'baby' him at home but I now with any kind of additional needs it has to be a consistent approach and I want to support what he needs to do at school... he comes home tired and cross most nights (although normal for start of term?!?) last year I felt like everyday was a battle for him and he missed out on enjoying reception

gloria also wanted to add I'm glad you got somewhere with SENCO, definitely good idea to have more involved than just class teacher,I find that some make their own 'experinced' judgements or accept the label rather than checking it, will ds get test soon? good luck with it

Hiya, so sorry for late reply. ( G V here)

I'm sorry your son is being labelled as troublesome. I hate it when the child gets blamed for something they can't understand or control and they don't mean any harm. It is very positive that the hearing issues were identified though.

Ours should be tested within a couple of weeks (sooner than I thought) and i'll post to say what comes out of it.

All the best with your wee boy too.

Sorry I didn't answer your other question. He sounds rather like yours earlier on. He wasn't ever defiant in terms of his own sense of justice etc, BUT he was very anxious, couldn't concentrate, got kept in to finish work a lot. (I made a fuss about this).

Socially he is great BUT he still gets picked on a little bit, he is so innocent and keen to please and doesn't really get the team mentality - he has not got much confidence. So he gets chosen last for sport, very minor general 'not in the top set' kind of treatment from the other kids but they really like him too as he is a kind boy and genuine.

He's just not quite like them I suppose but still has one or two pretty close friends. He's more popular than I was, put it that way

But yes your description sounds very familiar.

verybusyspider

The Auditory Processing Disorder in the UK (APDUK) web site may have some suggestions you may find useful. Try some of the following web pages:
Management of Auditory Processing Disorder
Ideas to be Considered Prior to Creating an IEP for an APD OR for those who may have visual processing issues
The Power of Visual Thinking
Teaching Reading to Visual-Spatial Learners
Why all Students need Visual-Spatial Methods

Dolfrog, I'm really sorry I didn't thank you for your incredibly helpful post. I thought I had done so but I hadn't.

Thankyou

My DS is just like this - he was labled as lazy when really he was just struggling massively. He has been assessed and does have dyslexia, and I know people argue that this isn't a useful label, but it has meant that people have to acknowledge then when he's procrastinating it's not because he's lazy or difficult, but because he's struggling. It's not just school work - it can take him an hour to get dressed in the morning because he can't stay on task. I have tried all sorts of things to incentivise it, but he just finds it hard. We also very rarely get the work written in the homework diary, I just remind him every time that he needs to write it in - at least try to get a word written down and always search the bag for any signs of work that needs doing! You do need school to get on board and support him. I know noise is sometimes a problem for DS - so the TA moving him to a quiet corner might work for your DS?

Thanks Sugar, that's really helpful and sounds like Ds to a tee.

I hate the way he's getting labelled. Even his friends keep asking him questions - like they seem constantly to question everything he says, because maybe he isn't quite as confident as them, so the other morning they were playing 'it' and he was getting very out of breath. I told him to stop for a bit as he has asthma, but immediately they were all on his case saying 'You don't have an inhaler, you've never said you have asthma, does he really have asthma?' and I said yes, that's what the doctor told us, he doesn't have an inhaler at the moment but if he gets out of breath and starts to cough, he has to stop'.

They even questioned this: 'a cough isn't asthma though' and I had to say yes, it can be caused by asthma, blah blah blah.

It was hard work and I can imagine he goes through this daily, just because he finds it quite hard to remember things and explain it all to everyone. He needs the teachers on his side or he has got no chance.

You may find these CiteULike research paper sharing groups useful.
Reading: Acquiring and Developing the Skills and Abilities - library 212 articles
Alexia (acquired dyslexia) - library 167 articles
Developmental Dyslexia - library 470 articles
Audiology and Auditory Processing Disorder - library 394 articles
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) - library 129 articles
Human Memory Systems - library 149 articles
the links are such that the groups are sorted in title (alphabetical order), but you can change the sort options, for instance to date of publication.

Many thanks, Dolfrog. You clearly know your stuff, I will take a look.