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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

Removing a child from school in year 6

52 replies

TheOriginalFAB · 16/09/2011 15:57

So 2 weeks in and today my child has been strangled, kicked and jumped on as well as name calling. I have left a message at the shcool and said if it happens again I will remove my child. Can someone talk to me about how that works please as it will happen again as this is another attack in a long line of them. AngrySad

OP posts:
BeaturedFloggers · 16/09/2011 17:49

So your DS isn't asking to leave school?

Do you think there may be an element of boisterous boy-ness, which you are interpreting as bullying? I know I don't like the way a lot of the boys in our school 'play' - it is very physical, and involves what I call 'fighting', but unless they lose(!), the boys involved seem to just get on with it. Friends one minute, smacking each other round the head with their bags the next Hmm.
Is it possible your DS isn't asking to leave because he deep down knows he is just doing what the others are doing, but doesn't like it when he comes off worse.

It would also explain the school's apparent lack of action - and yes I know schools sometimes don't take bullying seriously and yes, this kind of 'play' should be carefully watched so that horseplay doesn't go over the top.

Maybe have a think about what I've said when you have a calm minute.

I am not suggesting your DS is a thug, by any means, just that overly physical play is not uncommon at his age.

BeaturedFloggers · 16/09/2011 17:51

IIRC, your DS sometimes kicks off at home, doesn't he? Where he is top dog over his siblings. Maybe he finds it hard to accept that there are others at school who are top dog?

Just suggesting...please don't take offence, it really isn't intended. I am trying to give you alternative ways of thinking about this...

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 16/09/2011 18:04

BF - all I will say is you are wrong. I know what has gone on and I know what my son has and hasn't done.

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Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 16/09/2011 18:24

DH says no school will guarantee they can stop bullying so what the hell do we do then?

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MigratingCoconuts · 16/09/2011 18:36

yes, but they can do a hell of a lot better than this one!!!!!!

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 16/09/2011 18:55

I know I am too emotional. React first and think about it later but 10 year old boys and a girl have attacked my son today ffs. I can't be calm about it but I will be icily cool when I see the deputy head. Surely whatever he has in his diary this takes priority now? Do we have to tell them we have rung the police?

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RoyalWelsh · 16/09/2011 19:19

I would inform them that you have told the police. That, if anything, may 'encourage' the head teacher to take a harder line.

BeaturedFloggers · 16/09/2011 19:22

With respect FAB - you can't say that you know - you weren't there!

Children tell us all sorts of things, for reasons that aren't immediately apparent. Maybe your DS wants you to think he is being bullied, even if he isn't. He wouldn't be the first child. The fact that he isn't begging you to leave school is suggesting it isn't that straightforward...
Maybe he gets into fights/playfights and to deflect from getting into trouble he says he is being bullied.

FAB, you have suggested before that you don't always see things the way others do. Perhaps this is one of them. Maybe you or your DH needs to sit down with your DS and find out what is going on, rather than just reacting to his words. It might take a couple of gentle goes though, if he is used to telling you what he thinks you want to hear.

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 16/09/2011 19:29

BF - I am going to ignore your posts as I think you are being completely unfair. I do know what went on in school today. My child has no reason to lie and when he has said something back he has told me. He is not used to telling me what I want to hear and I have no idea why you would say that. And he has said he wants to leave the school.

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teacherwith2kids · 16/09/2011 19:31

FAB,

If what you report as happening has happened exactly as you describe it - an unprovoked physical attack on your son by several children - then the school should be dealing with it. I would suggest that you are open to the school about the fact that you have spoken to the police - what would be the point in hiding this information?

However, I have also been witness both to incidents between children and reports of those incident to parents by the children involved. In all cases, the child has significantly downplayed their involvement (in terms of provoking the attack - the classic 'he thumped me, Mum''Yes, but only because you called him a ..... and told him he couldn't play football because he was bad at it and then physically pushed him away from the football field' scenario) and significantly exaggerated the physical contact (the old favourite 'he tripped me up''you fell over my feet' dilemma).

Do you have other witnesses to the event, and (seeing as the attack you describe is severe and would leave marks) physical marks that match the events described? I presume so, because you are very categorical that you know exactly what has gone on, so you clearly have information to corroborate your son's version of events. Therefore, photograph the marks and record the words of the witnesses verbatim - because the school is likely to apply a degree of secpticism (for the reasons I give in the above paragraph) and getting past that to the necessary consequences to the perpetrators will be MUCH quicker if you take along such evidence. I would be very surprised indeed if the school doesn't take very tough action faced with firm evidence of this type - and if not, taking the evidence to the police should achieve it.

carpwidow · 16/09/2011 19:37

What marks does he have on his body FAB? It is important that you get photographic evidence as teacherwith2kids rightly says.

BeaturedFloggers · 16/09/2011 19:38

Oh FAB, I am not being unfair. I am just trying to suggest that things aren't always black and white.

Lots of children learn to tell their parents what they want to hear. Mine do, I am just good at spotting it now. I don't mean they are lying, it is just like political spin. However, children tend to only think of the moment, and don't always realise that what they are saying may have bigger consequences.

This is the first time you have said that he wants to leave school. You said earlier on the thread that you hadn't talked to him about it...

If you really want advice by coming on here, then you need to listen to what is being said, and not take offence, or try and justify your position by changing the facts. It doesn't help you in the end.

When it boils down to it, I am suggesting you talk to your DS, and give him permission to say whatever he needs to, without worry that he will get into trouble with your or your DH. From all that you have said, it really doesn't sound like he is being victimised. From where you are, if you have concluded that he is, then it might look like that - confirmation bias - you only notice information that supports your beliefs.

TBH, involving the Police may be a bad thing. They may investigate and that may make things clearer for everyone.

teacherwith2kids · 16/09/2011 19:40

Sorry, X-post. You say that 'you do know' - is your child genuinely your only informant? If so, ask him who else was around when it happened, who would have seen it, and ask the school to speak to those people if they seem to be ignoring what you and your son are saying. It would be very unlikely that nobody saw it (where did the attack take place? Playground? Corridor? Classroom? Toilet - typically the only semi-private area of a school - seems unlikely as boys and girsl were both involved so a public area is almost certain. If your son is reluctant to suggest who might have done, then perhaps you might find out why?

I should say that all parents in my experience categorically state that their child would never lie and had no reason to say anything other than the truth. However, as I say, when I have witnessed the events described (I might well be called in e.g. if i were the teacher on playground duty and had seen the children involved) it is rare that the child's account is wholly impartial! Of course, the truth of an event to a child is how they perceive it, and of course we deal with that appropriately, but the perception that a child has of an event may well be different from the actual event, and punishment for perpetrators tends to hinge on the actual event not perception, though great stress is put on the emotional as well as physical effect on the victim.

BeaturedFloggers · 16/09/2011 19:42

Very thoughtful posts teacherwith2kids

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 16/09/2011 19:42

I haven't talked to him about leaving school today, but have before.

My son has been bullied for 2 years and that is the truth.

I know my child and I know he is telling the truth.

How you can say he isn't being victimised I really don't know. And there were witnesses.

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carpwidow · 16/09/2011 19:44

And it's not about your child lying FAB, it's about the interpretation of a ten year old. I've got a child in my class who claimed yesterday to have been "beaten up" and"bullied". There were no visible marks on him. He had been pushed into the lockers by two boys. His mother came into school, she had heard her son's version of the "bullying" and being "beaten up" but when we got to the bottom of it, he had called them"retards" and they had retaliated by pushing him instead of reporting the verbal abuse to a teacher. I think Beatured is right - you are clearly upset, our children are all so precious, but people are trying to offer you advice and see it from all perspectives. If you are clear in your mind about what has happened and what you should do, then perhaps you shouldn't have started this thread.

Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 16/09/2011 19:44

I am hiding this thread now as it isn't helping. I don't have to justify what has happened and our thoughts to anyone, especially as you clearly have made your own mind up. How dare you question whether I know my own son or not as that is what you have implied even if you haven't planned too.

Thanks to all who have tried to help.

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Original poster
TheOriginalFAB · 16/09/2011 19:45

carp - just one point. My thread was about how to go about moving a child. Not a discussion as to whether ds had made it all up.

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teacherwith2kids · 16/09/2011 19:49

If there were witnesses, then everything does become much clearer. Your first step should be to speak to the school to say x incident happened today, involving a, b and c, hurting your child in the followng ways (which you will have photographed because this can't now be resolved until Monday). State that the incident was seen by several people, including Mrs A, child n and passing members of class q, and you would like the school to investigate by speaking to all of those people. You are confident that they will get to the bottom of the matter and you would like to meet the member of staff who finds out all the facts on Wednesday at time - to discuss what happens next.

Be prepared that the version of what happened MAY differ in some details from what your son has said and go in with an open mind BUT if the details do match the severity of the attack that you describe then you should press for detrails of the school's response - from the head and from the governors if you are not satisfied.

carpwidow · 16/09/2011 19:53

And you must get photographs of his injuries FAB - in my experience that is really important. I was trying to make you feel better by telling you what happened in my school, but the written word sounds much more curt than if we had been speaking face to face.

carpwidow · 16/09/2011 19:54

With regard to moving, get on to the Local Authority on Monday to see which schools in your area have places.

jamdonut · 16/09/2011 20:10

But is it "bullying" or is it very rough "play". Some children just have no boundaries and don't get it that pulling people about and rugby tackling them to the ground is not acceptable. That doesn't make them a bully,just misguided. It is a minefield. I have been on both sides, with my son being yanked about and hurt, but it was hard to call it bullying per se. I probably should add it was at the school I work at....so very difficult to see and hear things happen that as a mother make you want to kill other children, but as staff I am expected to be understanding.Sad

Lonnie · 17/09/2011 00:06

Jamdonut if the person whom is being " very roughed played" feels it is bullying then it is bullying. Doesnt matter if the children havent got the understanding. No one but the person being bullied can say when their boundary lines have been passed over. Difference in your sort of situation is generally that type of children on having pointed out they are hurting their friend are usually genuinly sorry and mortified it has happened and then tries vvery hard to not do so again.. Those that bully to get a kick from it wouldnt have any such feelings.

WhoresHairKnickers · 17/09/2011 12:10

Well said Lonnie.

Ingles2 · 17/09/2011 12:43

Wow FAB, Shock I appreciate you're upset, but you have been really rude to BF...
As for moving schools it's quite easy. You phone up the school you want and see if they have a place, if not, go on the waiting list. Be prepared that the school may well inform your current school,. I phoned our new school in the morning for a visit to view, by afternoon pick up, the old headteacher was waiting for me at the gate to see why we were moving. But then in your circumstances that might not be a bad thing.