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How do we teach precious DS1 to read?

80 replies

BirdFromDaNorf · 23/07/2011 14:13

I know on some level I am being PFB about this but he was 4 in Feb 2011, and just isn't interested in learning letters or putting them together. He loves us reading books to him, and with him, and he joins in, but isn't interested in learning to read. He's writing his name, under duress and would rather do colouring. So many other people that we know in his class for reception can already do some basic reading, so any tips / advice gratefully received...

OP posts:
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namechange100 · 25/07/2011 12:46

mrz Mon 25-Jul-11 12:39:26

Look we obviously disagree what is a decodeable and what is not. I have posted in reponse to OP and never refuted the value of phonics.

If you do not believe in the value of sight words then thats up to you, but I think you'll find most reception classes use them in some form.

Dorje · 25/07/2011 12:46

"He's writing his name, under duress and would rather do colouring" my emphasis.

erm, back off OP!

Read to him as you have been doing by all means, but let the school work their magic!! Enjoy your little fellow.

mrz · 25/07/2011 12:53

The point is that mixed method teaching has been discredited for a number of years ...

namechange100 · 25/07/2011 13:05

Thats not what you have said previously and that link just pits them against each other.

IME of my DS I am happy how he has been taught, the school had an oustanding OFSTED last year. He is reading above his expected level according to his report.

mrz · 25/07/2011 13:11

IME as a reception teacher SENCO and literacy coordinator teaching sight words has no long term benefits.
Sorry but "expected levels" can mean anything ... my most able reception class readers taught by phonics left reading at NC level 2C (entered reception as non readers knowing no sight words or phonemes)

ThePosieParker · 25/07/2011 13:15

Reading schmeading. There's no telling that a child who reads early does any better at school or beyond than one that learns at 8!!

silverfrog · 25/07/2011 13:25

are you as inflexible in the classroom as you sound here, mrz?

having a senco with an inflexible attitude would worry me a lot.

I have had contact with a fair few sencos over the few short years my dds have been in education (dd1 is only just 7), and the most valuable thing, ime and imo, is flexibility.

dd1 would not, absolutely not, have learned to read by phonics alone. she is reading now (she has severe ASD), haltingly and slowly, but she is reading, and she is trying to work out more (due to her base knowledge of phonics, which is solid, well taught, and thoroughly known).

however, without her knowledge of sight words (some of the high frequency words, names (hers and her family/teachers etc) she would not have got started.

I too had the "talk" from dd2's teacher last year (last year of pre-school) about not teaching dd2 to read, or her letters etc. unfortunately, dd2 had other ideas and has known her phonics (and letter names) since she was 2 - she sat in (her choice!) on a lot of dd1's home education programme, and learned it that way. I told her teacher this (they were particularly insistent on us not teaching the letter names), and the reply was "oh well, you can always tell the ones that have an older sibling - don't worry about it, it just means she's a bit ahead of herself" - so was it as important as they were insisting, or not?! dd2 seems to be doing really well via the impromptu method. and given that the phonics she was being taught at school were incorrect (as is Jolly Phonics) then I think I'll stick to my (and dd1's educators) method, thanks.

mrz · 25/07/2011 13:35

Not inflexibility at all silverfrog just many many years experience of teaching children and hating to see then fail.
My son, also ASD, has never grasped phonics which has been a huge handicap for him in his writing. So even though he read fluently before entering nursery he was still not writing in Y6.

mrz · 25/07/2011 13:36

You say the phonics she was taught in school was incorrect as is Jolly Phonics perhaps you would like to elaborate????

silverfrog · 25/07/2011 13:43

ah yes, the "more experience" card.

undoubtedly you do have a wider experience, but sometimes this does not translate into better knowledge of a particular child.

I am sorry your ds struggled with is writing. dd1 is too, due to motor issues. it is too early to tell whether she will ever write fluently anyway.

her typing, though, is ok. so i guess she is doing alright.

my point, I suppose, is that you could have had dd1 in your reception class, and thought she was oding fine - all phonics learnt by the end of the year - not decoding yet, but hey, she has severe dleays, so doing well overall. and that's it - hand over ot the next teacher.

so you would not have failed her, ostensibly. except you would have, as the teachers she had when she was reception age did, because you were pushing phonics and ignoring how she actually wanted to (and was able to) learn. boxes ticked on paper do not necessarily mean success. (obviously this applies as much to sight words as it does to phonics!)

like namechange, i am not saying phonics does not have a very valuable place. dd1 has thoroughly loved her phonics work. but she is unable to blend and decode. at all. she is, however, highly motivated to carry on trying, and she wil get there eventually, I have no dubt, as she has incredible staying power. but what has lead her to this point is being able to use her sight words, and memory skills, in order to achieve some success, and to understand the point of reading. if we had not taken this dual appraoch, she would still have enjoyed her phonics, but would not be reading simple stories, as she is now.

silverfrog · 25/07/2011 13:47

tbh, if you don't know that Jolly Phonics is incorrect, then I'm not sure I can help you.

you seriously have not noticed the inherent issues that they build in for some of the letters?

oh well.

maverick · 25/07/2011 14:38

silverfrog wrote re. Jolly Phonics:
''you seriously have not noticed the inherent issues that they build in for some of the letters?''

I'm seriously mystified- please explain.

mrz · 25/07/2011 14:41

Perhaps you will enlighten me ...

SquishyCinnamonSwirls · 25/07/2011 15:34

I'm also looking forward to silverfrogs explanation as I have not the foggiest idea what is meant.
My daughter learnt to read the jolly phonics way and is now a superb reader that school are having problems keeping up with. The 3yr old that I mind is also well on the way to knowing her letters and some basic cvc words that I've taught her. Again by teaching the jolly phonics way.
I have helped out with a lot of reading in school of all ages and abilities and the phonics method is the most impressive for getting children decoding words and giving them tools to learnt to read well.

SquishyCinnamonSwirls · 25/07/2011 15:36

*learn not learnt!

Feenie · 25/07/2011 17:07

Another teacher here, very interested to hear why Jolly Phonics is incorrect Confused

DeWe · 25/07/2011 17:56

I suspect they're talking about things like "rrrrr" is for aeroplane? I think that's Jolly Phonics. I remember dd1's teacher in yr R commenting that particular one confused children. Am I right? They stopped using those shortly after dd1 finished yr R so I'm not certain.

mrz · 25/07/2011 18:38

nnnnnnnnnnn noisy aeroplane rrrrrrrrrrr dog ripping a rug

It can be confusing if the teacher doesn't emphasise the nasty noisy nnnn
and ripping the rug rrrr

mrz · 25/07/2011 18:40

but that doesn't make it incorrect Hmm

perhaps silverfrog will return to share her wisdom

Feenie · 25/07/2011 18:43

That wouldn't amount to phonics being 'incorrectly'taught though, would it? Still confused. Confused

mrz · 25/07/2011 18:48

although I would concede that phonics is sometimes taught incorrectly I would be interested to know how??

virgiltracey · 25/07/2011 19:07

DS1 used the songbird phonics books (which avoid the confusing words like "the") and was a good little reader by the time he started reception. He was keen to do it and it was fun because he was keen. DS2 is only just 4 but will be starting reception in september. He can blend really well and could read if he wanted to but isn't really interested and so we're not really doing anything with him. He'll learn when he's ready.

I was one of those who taught phonics incorrectly, I did it like we did it when I ws at school in the early 70s buh (b), cuh (c), duh (d), fuh (f) etc. Its not held DS1 back in the slightest but it is certainly easier to blend using the jolly phonics method.

virgiltracey · 25/07/2011 19:10

But Mrz whilst I generally think you speak very wisely, surely there are some words which are best just memorised for example "the" and "I" which pop up very early on and are easiest just memorised? otherwise how do you explain that "t" "h" "e" makes "the" rather than "tuh huh e"?

mrz · 25/07/2011 19:16

easily because "th" represents /th/ sound in this and them and that and those

virgiltracey · 25/07/2011 19:21

But wouldn't that make "th" "e" rather than "th" "u"?

I don't know, as I said, I got it all wrong anyway Grin. I completely believe in phonics to teach reading but we also have three "magic words" in our house which are memorised right at the beginning on flashcards "I" "the" and "said".