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Primary education

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Original poster

Supply teacher slapped my daughter, not happy with head mistress' response

61 replies

LillaW · 18/07/2011 16:43

My 7yr old daughter was very upset after school on Friday and finally told me that her supply teacher had slapped her on the arm as she was trying to help up a friend who had fallen over. I went to the head this morning and calmly explained what had happened. Head's first response was "I dont believe Miss X would have done that", I explained that I really didnt doubt my daughter's version of events as it had taken a lot to get out of her what had happened as she was so shocked and upset by it. Head tells me she will investigate but I dont hold out much hope. Once I get a response, if I am not happy what should I do? Sorry if this has all been covered before.

OP posts:

benetint · 20/07/2011 00:18

If it was my daughter (and I'm a teacher) and the HT didn't immediately take it seriously I'd go straight to the police. Sorry.

cory · 20/07/2011 00:24

Even if you didn't know for sure what had happened or if it had been an accident, benetint? Wouldn't you at least try to speak to other witnesses first to get the story confirmed?

My MIL is embarrassed enough about the time she went storming into the school to tell them off for teaching her ds wrestling in infants school. He'd made it up.

MindtheGappp · 20/07/2011 05:05

What exactly would the police do?

ContraryMartha · 20/07/2011 05:51

You must take it seriously.

Even if it later turns out to be nothing, at least your daughter will know she has your support.

Teachers are not perfect and do make mistakes. When I was 11 I had a teacher who was sleazy towards the girls, with very inappropriate comments, be racially abusive, slap us with rulers and act very scary indeed.
Later I found out, he was actually an alcoholic.
My parents thought I was being melodramatic...

Looking back, it was bloody horrific.

exoticfruits · 20/07/2011 07:07

The Head is investigating. How can you possibly expect her to do anything until she has the full story?
All the police could do is exactly the same as the Head-investigate.
Your DD knows she has your support, you have reported it and the Head is investigating.
As a teacher, benetint, what do you expect to happen? A 7yr old says that a teacher slaps her and because you think she always tells the truth the teacher is instantly suspended-without hearing her side, without hearing from witnesses?
As she is a supply teacher I doubt she will be working in the school again until it is investigated.
I really don't know why OP doesn't hold out much hope, of course she will have investigated. She will have phoned the teacher straight away. It will take time-she will have to ask the friend who was being helped up as well as anyone else watching.
I still think that it has to be a huge misunderstanding-why would a teacher slap a helpful DC who is never generally in trouble? Where did it happen? Was in a lesson or break? If break was the teacher on playground duty?
The most likely explanation to me seems that the DC she was helping had fallen badly enough for her to think she might have broken something and that helping her up wasn't wise so she slapped the helping arm away. This could be completely wrong-there could be any number of reasons, including her slapping her for no reason-but one thing is for sure the Head needs to investigate. So would the police.
I am astounded that the poor woman is immediately guilty and if the Head isn't coming back in 5 mins she is 'covering up'.

GwendolineMaryLacey · 20/07/2011 07:35

Why is it on these threads, that everyone is always so convinced that the child is lying? And I don't know that spiderpig's problem is? Some pretty wild accusations there

SilveryMoon · 20/07/2011 07:36

OP The HT didn't say she didn't believe your daughter, she said she didn't believe the teacher would do something like that.
Big difference IMO.
Others are right, the HT can't possibly do anything until she has investigated, although I do think it would have been better if she hadn't immediately said she didn't believe the teacher would do that, that comment would have been better kept to herself.
If you are not happy and don't believe that the HT will fully investigate, then write a letter to the governors, they will handle it.

Poshbaggirl · 20/07/2011 07:50

I dont mean to be flippant, but as the mother of an 18yr old daughter who has survived through a crappy secondary school and college, and as a sad mum whos 10yr old is just about to finish 7 yrs at primary. ( where i've been doing the school run for 14 yrs) i'd say just put it behind you. Much, much worse is yet to come during all the years of schooling. If you fight constantly about everything you'll wear yourself out. I'm just glad my oldest is still alive, after everything shes been through.

Had you considered that the teacher might have seen what had happened? Was there an 'accident' involving your daughter? How come the other child had 'fallen'?

Pick your battles. Teach your child that sometimes shit happens.

Goblinchild · 20/07/2011 07:54

I did shout at a child once who was dragging a fallen friend to her feet after a fall in the playground. The child had a compound fracture of the leg.
The parent of the 'helper' complained that I had shouted, and thought I could have been nicer and asked properly.
I apologised, it wasn't worth bothering to try and get the parent to understand why I'd tried to stop what was happening from 20 metres away by yelling.

exoticfruits · 20/07/2011 07:59

I have never said that the DC is lying. All I have said is that the Head needs to be given time to investigate.
It all seems odd to me, a DC who isn't in trouble normally, who wasn't doing anything 'naughty' at the time and doesn't lie, was slapped. The Head, who knows the teacher, doesn't think she would do it. Somewhere in there there has to be an explanation-probably innocent on both sides. Certainly not something to jump to conclusions about before the Head has had time to find out.

cory · 20/07/2011 08:17

Gwendoline, not everybody is convinced the child must be lying. What several of them are actually saying is that either of them could be lying and the head must investigate before she makes up her mind.

I fully believe that teachers can lie- I have seen it.

But I also believe that children can lie- I have seen that too.

The Head probably has experience of both too.

ThePosieParker · 20/07/2011 08:20

How surprising, MN posters like to tell you your dd is wrong and mistaken. Teachers are not human they're all perfect don't you know.

ThePosieParker · 20/07/2011 08:21

My son was called a name and class encouraged to do the same by teacher, teacher apologised (ish, said my ds was sensitive) for it and now it comes to light that teacher says it never happened.

cory · 20/07/2011 08:26

Posie, a fair few of us are saying that either of them could be telling a lie: why should the head condemn either the child or the teacher unheard? If my ds got into trouble/was badly treated, I would want to know that the head listened to him equally, not that he only listened to him.

exoticfruits · 20/07/2011 08:29

I don't think that anyone is saying the DD is wrong and mistaken-just that the Head is investigating! I can't believe that people really think that a DC of any age should say 'my teacher slapped me' and the Head says 'right-end of career'!! She is doing the right thing-investigating.

Pagwatch · 20/07/2011 08:29

It is going to be difficult to know that your child is recounting the situation accurately because children can easily misinterpret. I have had dd cry that I 'tripped her up' when she ran in front of me and we both stumbled.

But I also watched a transport escort slap a child across the back of the head so I never assume ' that can't be possible'.

You told the head. Give her a chance to try and unpick what happened before you guess what she will say.

exoticfruits · 20/07/2011 08:30

Anyone, in any walk of life is innocent until proved guilty. Posters seem to be turning this on its head and saying 'guilty until proved innocent.'

emptyshell · 20/07/2011 11:53

exoticfruits -we all know that's not the way it works in education...

The head's investigating - I could see crossed wires that she's tried to gently "bat" a child back so she can get in and check the injured child's ok (I've put bat in inverted commas as I think it still sounds too strong but I can't think of quite the appropriate word) because kids do tend to crowd and try to smother with kindness when someone falls over and if it's something serious where you don't want the child to moved the kids' first reaction tends to be to try to get them stood up so they can all fight over who's going to take them to first aid.

Trouble is with it being a supply - there's this extra layer of go-between to get through in order to investigate via the agency and (speaking as a supply teacher here) they can be utter wriggly pains in the arse to get to answer phones and return calls etc... so you'll have processes to run their course on both the agency's side with their internal systems kicking into action AND on the school's side. You quite likely won't hear about the agency side of it at all - there'll be a note made on the file to not send them to that school again anyway (that's not a rare event - you get them all the time if your face doesn't fit) and it'll quite possibly be going even higher with regard to remaining on the agency's books at all (some agencies run a one complaint and you're off the books system - others are more relaxed, accept that some schools complain about ridiculous things and would look at the seriousness of it - knowing agencies personally I'd reckon they'll be off the books though for that).

I'm a supply - I've had complaints made about me from schools for the daftest things (not knowing that the second Monday of full moon means assembly is at 10.42 am and not 9.15.... not knowing that infants were expected to do PE in utter silence - before you think I'm an utter teacher monsters), most of us have over the years (I know I'm on the "do not send" list of three schools for reasons like those listed above)... no song or dance is made about it in schools - it's just, you never go there again (and quite often if it's something just like "that one didn't work out very well with our kids" - which it often can be - you might not even know yourself).

I also have a couple of schools on my own "you ain't berluddy sending me there again" list as well!

As for jumping to defend the teacher - I don't think people are, I think they're explaining how it might have been misinterpreted - because sometimes stuff IS. Kids at school quite often react differently to at home - and preventing the overenthusiastic rush to yank a kid up to their feet in order to take them to first aid if there's a possibility it IS a fracture can be actually quite tricky (because they all want to be seen to be the good friend helping their friend out and eagerness to please, but can't always handle their injured friend appropriately.... think about how carefully they play with dolls, then dangle them by one leg for a second while making their bed in the pram for them - it's that kind of discrepancy between intent and manouver). They also have the intrinsic human nosey streak and crowd to see what's going on - so most of us are saying similar - that it COULD well be that the teacher's just tried to make their way in to see what was going on among the crowd and been a bit rough and it's got muddled on the way home. Could also be that tempers have got frayed and it HAS happened - that's why the head's investigating and that's got to take time and follow the processes set out to make sure that it's done fairly for all concerned (although speaking as a teacher - even when you're the most wound up it's possible to get by a kid who's been pushing your buttons all day for weeks - hitting just does not cross your mind... hiding in the cupboard and having a good scream maybe... let alone for a playground tumble).

Erebus · 20/07/2011 14:00

My honest-as-the-day-is-long but puny DS, when he was in the middle of Y6, came home and told me that a much bigger boy had tried to strangle him! There was a suggestion of a mark on his neck. I got DS1 to recount the story, bit by bit, then I phoned the school and spoke to his teacher (I should add DS started the school at the start of Y6 so wasn't 'embedded particularly well and perhaps could possibly be seen as a possible new-boy 'victim'- a situation I wanted nipped in the bud!). I was fine as in not 'being polite thru gritted teeth' etc as DS was hardly traumatised by it all!- I asked the teacher if he could maybe keep an eye on the situation and I did concede I thought there might be mor eto it that I had been told. Anyway, the teacher was duly shocked and expressed surprise that the boy in question would have done such a thing. He also said that said boy was actually leaving the school for good at the end of the week so I said 'Oh, I see, well, there's no point in making a song and dance about it, is there, really?!'. The teacher said he'd investigate anyway.

Next day DS comes home, all OK, telling me the teacher had asked him if he was OK etc and sending him out to play with a 'trusted' group of boys, no problem.

A week or so later DS admitted that he'd leaped on the boy's back from behind 'for a laugh' and the boy had flung out the arm that caught DS's throat in self-preservation....

I have on occasion brought this incident up as a 'bringing-up-sharp' exercise when DS tells me slightly things.... actually, it still sort of shocks me recalling it!

exoticfruits · 20/07/2011 14:52

I can see that if it all went through an agency it would take time. As a supply teacher I never worked through an agency. The one complaint I had was when I worked the morning only and I had a phone call just after lunch and it was all cleared up by 2.30pm.
However, if the Head can't get hold of her immediately it will take time.
Perhaps OP could come back with an update?

clam · 20/07/2011 19:00

This is 2011. Are there really likely to be teachers around who slap children?? Speak roughly, possibly. Get assembly times wrong, certainly. But slap a child???? Really?

spiderpig8 · 20/07/2011 20:06

'I don't know that spiderpig's problem is? Some pretty wild accusations there '

Do you know what accusation means? I have made no accusations!!

I have said I don't believe the story.That's a different thing.
I don't believe because
a) why was the child reluctant to tell the parent about the alleged slapping.Normally kids that age can't wait to report even the nmost minor of transgressions.What they are reluctant to relate is when they have been in the wrong!
b) Even (in the very unlikely scenario) the teacher was prone to slapping a child.I am sure he has encountered much more infuriating children who have tested his patience to the limit, and yet he waits til the OPs 'never naughty DDs is helping a child to unleash this side of his personality.

pranma · 20/07/2011 21:04

It is so unlikely that a teacher today would actually slap[which is a pretty unambiguous action].If this did happen then the supply agency should be informed.Were there witnesses?Did anyone actually see this 'slap'?What does dd's friend say?If you ask her dont say.'Did Mrs X slap dd?'just say ,'What happened when dd tried to help you up today?'You could ruin this teacher's life-make absolutely certain that a]this is justified and b]this is what you want to happen.Believe me it will happen if you go beyond the headyeacher.

pranma · 20/07/2011 21:04

teacher

exoticfruits · 20/07/2011 22:31

Are there really likely to be teachers around who slap children??

No. I can't see that it could possibly happen-or not unless the teacher was absolutely at the end of their tether-enough to completely snap-even then I don't think they would. In this case it is a DC who was doing nothing except help a DC up-why would a teacher slap her?

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