Mixing up classes...why o why?

[Smallstuff]

DS2 is moving to Yr2 next year. Our school is split site so he also has a move of site to the 'upper site'.
Today (the school was open) we get the letters saying which classes they will be in next year.
Its the beginning of a 3 day weekend (training day at school tomorrow).
The classes have been mixed up. All his close friends are in the other class.
I don't pick up on Thursdays so could not canvas around the playground for any other names of his next nearest friends.
I don't have contact details for those children's mums.
So I now have a child beside himself for 3 days waiting to find out who from his current class is with him that he vaguely gets on with.
There are 4 of them at school that are inseperable. And have been since pre school. The other 3 are in the other class. The kids were not asked to name anyone they would like to be with. I just can't see why they would not put him with at least one of them! Do they not know my child!
The school likes to mix them up 'to build character and friendship making skills' he is 5 FFS...he doesn't need his character building...
Is is me? Why does it have to be done this way.
Do you think I would be unreasonable to call the school tomorrow on a training day to ask for a class list?

I know the reasons those in favour of mixing would come up with. They are personal opinions and I have a few different ones. Just wondered what evidence there was.

I've found terrific benefits in mixing classes. They make new friends. They learn how to make new friends. Kids who were a bit on the edges of everything one year get the chance to join in, as everything's reshuffled (I think this is really important, actually - and no, my kids weren't the ones in question).

One of the (many) reasons I had to move school was because it was a one form entry, so they couldn't mix up the kids, so I couldn't get my DS separated from the boys he needed to be separated from.....

In his new 3 form entry they separate him every year :) It's great knowing that whatever problems he is having with X will be gone next year, and we get to have a proper fresh start.

My DD has not been in her best friend's class all year. They're still best friends. They always play together - unless it's wet play and they're stuck in their classes. She has no good friends in her class. It doesn't bother her at all.

I don;t doubt children's resilience.

pointydog - I don't have any research evidence either way, but from a within school point of view, sometimes classes do need to be mixed. Sometimes there are conflicts of personality, or sometimes the mix of needs within classes it necessarily challenging, and could be better managed by moving a few children. Much fairer in that case to muddle everyone, rather than to move just a few children making them the only "new" children in an established class.

As they go through the school there are fewer opportunities for socialising within the classroom anyway - and many teachers will deliberately seat children so they are NOT sat near their friends anyway, to cut down on off topic chatter.

DD's (yr2) class is being mixed up today ready for the start of year 3. They have been asked for write 3 names of poeple they would like to stay with and that will be taken into account when they mix them up and apparently, according to DD, they will be with at least 1 person on their list! I thought she would be really worried as she has had the same best friend since reception but she seems convinced they will be split up and says its fine as they will still play together at playtime and out of school! Also, the classes are already mixed up for maths so she hopes she might still be with her for that!

Indigobell- sorry, but you are being a smug teacher.
Mixing/splitting classes (at primary age) is not a good thing.
It may be unavoidable (our school cannot afford to do anything else), but the children hate it!
DD2 is delight they are all together next year (they've been a team since nursery, even when one of their number was over seas)

Well it coud be argued, of course, that it's a good skill for life to learn how to resolve or live with differences of personality and opinions and not just think, it'll all change next year and I'll ask my mum to separate me from x, y and z.

Startail - I'm not a teacher!

My children happen to like it or not care either way about it.

I'm sure there are some children who hate it. But just because some children hate it doesn't mean it's not good for them.......

Being adaptive to change is one of the best life skills you can have.

Every single thing is a two edged sword, good for some and bad for others. There will be some kids who will be separated from friends and won't cope. There will be others who will be separated from enemies who will be delighted...

But if my child was worried about it, I'd be working on their 'adaptive to change' threshold rather than complaining to school. I'd be helping them see the positives in it. But mostly I'd think they weren't as robust and confident as I'd like them to be...... and would post endless threads on here about how I could improve all of those kind of things.

Then again, my kids go to a school I'm very happy with. I trust their judgement when they mix the classes up. Maybe that's the difference.

Crikey, I'd be working on my love of jargon rather than my 'adaptive to change threshold'

PointyDog - I never have to ask for my kids to be separated from X, Y and Z! It is always teacher initiated

You think it's better for bullies and victims to stay together when it would be equally easy to separate them?

You think it's better to keep kids together who fight when it would be equally easy to separate them?

You think it's best for 2 kids with conflicting SEN to be kept together when it would be equally easy to separate them?

You think it's best for 2 kids with complimentary SEN to be kept apart when it would be equally easy for them to be together?

But in real life - it does all change next year. You can almost always change jobs, change flatmates, change hobbies.... In real life if there is someone you really can't stand you can normally engineer it so you don't have to be with them very much.

I'm very pleased that they've separated DS from the boy he constantly fights with - a much better solution then ringing me up every 5 mins to complain.

And I'm very pleased that they've put DD in a class with another badly dyslexic child - a nice way to keep her confidence high.

And I really don't care who my DS2 is with. He's pretty self-contained.

But then like I said, my kids go to a school I'm very happy with. I trust their judgement when they mix the classes up. Maybe that's the difference.

My oldest dd was in a one-form entry school, so no possibility of mixing classes. By Y6 she'd been in a classroom with the same children for eight years, and tbh they were sick of the sight of each other.

My younger dc have been/are in a two-form entry school where they don't mix the classes at all. Everyone stays in the same group from Reception to Y6. I really wish they would mix them a bit, tbh, if not every year then maybe between Y2 and Y3 or something, just to jiggle the dynamics a bit. My youngest dc is happy enough, but has no close friends and tricky dynamics with a couple of other strong characters in the class. I think they would really benefit from some new faces in the classroom.

Your 'Emotional Intelligence' is a far better predictor in how you will do in life than your IQ.

And one of the measurements of your Emotional Intelligence is how well you can adapt to change.

It's a really important life skill.

I don't think thes best way to deal with bullying and fighting is to separate them. You speak as though this is some magical solution to all problems that might arise in school.

What on earch do you think smaller schools do where annual separation is not a possibility?

Ah. I think 'emotional intelligence' is a baloney philosophy too.

I think larger schools have many advantages over smaller schools - and being able to mix up classes is one of their advantages.

I very much regret initially sending my children to a one form entry, and would never recommend it to anyone.

DD was separated for y2 from all of her best mates. She despaired.
It was the making of her... she made much better friends in the new class, completely blossomed.
What I will say about "mixing up" is that school now has a policy of separating best friends to prevent powerful cliques from dominating any one class. I can see the huge pluses in that... but truth is that DD struggles to see her best friends outside of school (complicated reasons); the division policy hasn't been great for her self-confidence this year.

I am intrigued by the idea that there are lots of schools about that mix up classes every year to stop bullying and the formation of powerful cliques and pupils forming long-term best friends. I had no idea.

If this is so, is it all just based on teachers' informal observations and feelings that this is a good way to solve these sorts of issues?

There is a lot of well meaning psychology on this thread, but very little understanding of how hard some children have to work to make friends and how utterly heart broken they are when school undoes their efforts.
Emotional intelligence, I suspect, cannot be taught, you either are or are not good at making friends.
For those like myself and DD1 who find it very hard, some understanding of why we want to stay in (or indeed leave) our present peer group would be really appreciated.
DD2 makes friends very easily, but hates the splitting of her year group just the same. As I said before they are a team, they have their smaller groupings, their best friends and their quarrels, but it's truly y5 girls forever.
It's a small school, the mixing ricochets up a year / down a year so they know that if they make friends with an older or younger child, they'll be split next year. Also groups can cross with siblings or siblings friends and that isn't always comfortable.
There is no right answer, sometimes class sizes will mean that mixing is inevitable, but mixing for mixings sake NO!

I do sympathise with how your DS must be feeling, but mixing can have real advantages.

We have 3 20-person reception classes that become 2 30-person YR1 classes. We ask children who their friends are, use judgment, and increasingly ask parents too (who can feel strongly about siblings or, oddly, gender of teacher). Our head and admin staff work wonders, but there are always those who don't get what they want, and pressure to re-jig.

But it does seem to have advantages to many children: younger kids who have matured can redefine themselves a little, inherited nursery and out-of-school cliques are broken up, and (particularly relevant to you) shyer children on the edges of classes often integrate better because now everyone is in the same 'new' boat, without losing old friendships in non-class time. We reviewed our policy because of the admin hassle, and Reception teachers visiting Yr 1 were the keenest in terms of the effects they felt it had on shy or 'problem' children.

There may be some room here to stress the positives to your DS, rather than increase his panic?

PS: We would never give out class lists because of child protection-not even with names removed (if you know someone's age a list of 29 is dead giveaway). As a child of a sometimes physically abusive parent, I wish such measures had been in place when I was at school.

Thanks for all the replies. And an interesting discussion. I have spent some time chatting to friends and have managed to find three boys he knows fairly well in his new class so we have both calmed down a bit...
I said originally that I am trying to play it down with him and this seems to be working.
He will still see his best friends at play time..
I am going to set up a couple of play dates for him with boys in his new class before end of term to help out. I know he will be fine.
He is doing so well at school despite being a late August birthday and having several health issues... I just want his life to be as easy as possible just for a little bit longer.... He is still only 5....
Anyway enough said will just 'get on with it'

My dc's primary used to mix every year. I have found mixing, on the whole to be a good thing when it comes to the transition to secondary. When they get to secondary, they may be put into a form class with two boys and two girls from one primary - but NOT necessarily from their class at primary. So when DD went to secondary, she was put into a form class with one other girl from her primary school - who wasn't in her Y6 class, but had been in her Y2 class, and her Y5 class. So she knew her. If they hadn't been mixed, she wouldn't have known anyone in her form class.

However, due to my DS1's year group being very small (single form intake) (so unable to be mixed) , they have started only mixing them at the end of reception, and the end of Y2. I find this not so good, as when it comes to Secondary transfer, DS1 may not be in a class with anyone he knows, and DS2 (currently in Y2), may not have played with / spoken to the people in his form since he was 7yo in Y2, 4 yrs down the line he won't know them at all.

And to top it off, one of the parent governors is making a fuss about them mixing at the end of Y2 even - she's a personal friend, but I really disagree with her on this. I hope she hasn't got her way because then my DS2's class won't have been mixed since the end of reception, and in a 3-form intake, that could be horrible when it comes to secondary transfer.

I have found that when they do mix them, you get a few days whining about not being with their friends when you find out, and about 2 days when they go back in September, but after that, they've made new friends and are perfectly fine again.

I won't find out until the 14th July if they've been mixed or not.

My children's school mixes at need, and not if there isn't any need.

DS's class was last re-mixed at the end of year 1, and have remained unchanged all the way through to year 5. The mix at the end of Year 1 was because the two classes had very different dynamics - one quite 'difficult' and somewhat rowdy, the other excessively orderly but not very creative. A half / half split worked very well to even out the behaviour and learning styles.

DD's class was last re-mixed at the end of reception and have stayed unchanged through to year 3. The mix at the end of reception was because DD's class turned out to have the majority of the very able children in the year, who dragged the rest of the class with them 'like a train' (teacher's words) and it was proving hard to keep the progress in the two classes in line. Re-mixing gave a more balanced mix of abilities in each class and so both classes have made great progress.

Will see what happens for next year. I suspect that DS's class will remain unchanged as one of the year 6 teachers was his year 3 teacher so his class will probably go unchanged to the other teacher IYSWIM?

My school has 20 per year group, some mixed year classes, some single year classes. Each year group spends one year of their school life 'split', and all the others together. I do sometimes think that some remixing would be a good plan but it's not possible with the small numbers. We do a lot of work with random 'thinking buddies' and mixed groups within the classroom to ensure that everyone has the skills needed to work with different people.

I found out my sons class is being split. I had no problem with it as there are a few strong boys in his class and in the other. I then found out he is not having one friend with him but other children are and the 2 boys who he had major problems with are staying with him and they are moving 2 other strong(pc word for badly behaved, violent and out of control)boys into his class. He had major problems at the beginning of term but has settled in the last few months after making good friends with some of the girls. The teacher has called us in and told us he has social/emotional problems so why do this to him. I have decided not to say anything about it but in September when i am called in because of problems with the boys i will tell the teacher to get on with it as she has created the problem.

My ds in tears over class mix list for year 2. I can understand why as his 4 best friends are in the other class. I am hoping teacher will reassure me with reasons why they have done this mix - I want to be reassured!!
[My ds says 'I have no one'....].