Does your school hold mock marriages and christenings?

[Ormirian]

Ours does. DS2 is attending a christening today. They are christening a baby doll with extravagantly long eyelashes in a rather hideous shiny christening robe. They are calling her Ebony after a poll in the 2 year groups. DS didn't vote because as she has skin and not fur or scales and only 2 legs he really couldn't give a stuff.

Last term Child A 'married' Child B in a moving ceremony in the church. After which child A pushed child B in a puddle (actually she didn't but it would have been funny)

On both occasions a party followed with food supplied by parents.

Is this a new phenomenon. is it because not enough people get wed or christen their babies for it to be a commonly witnessed occurence and children might grow up never seeing it?

When this article went on line, I was called a dirty minded puritan and someone threatened to start up a petition to drive me out of Kent.

www.kentonline.co.uk/dartford/news/child-marriages-sparks-bitter-row-128370

or google st marys church, greenhithe, role play marriage.

The school I made a complaint about, has the local Priest as their RE teacher and he is also on the school board.

It is not a Church of England school, but even if it was, I still don't think this is right.

It’s a bit bizarre and twee. Many people don’t get married or christened in a church these days.

Isn't it just a way to make the RE curriculum a bit more exciting for the kids? We've acted out weddings, baptisms, sacred string ceremonies, Bat mitzvahs. It's just a bit of fun. The last wedding we did had two grooms...... I just put names into a hat of all the children that want to join in!

Young children role play lots of situations it's how they make sense of the world they live in.

I don't see what the problem is. They also pretend to be trees in dance doesn't mean we are trees...

There are many different levels to this issue. It is not the same as pretending to be a tree. Trees do not promise to "live together as in the eyes of God", in front of an ordained Priest, in a church building. There is the question whether the parents are aware/give permission for these mock ceremonies. My neighbour told me the first thing she knew of this, was when her son came home and said "mummy, what's a homosexual?" because apparently, the Priest had said it was ok for homosexuals to get married as long as they loved each other. (at present, this is against church doctrine)

I have no wish to offend people in same sex relationships - if nothing else, if a Priest/Teacher talks about homosexuality, they should talk about it properly, so that children understand what it is they are talking about.

I want to be very clear, I am against any sex of children marrying in church - I wouldn't be that happy about a classroom with a teacher either. Whether we like it or not, marriage is linked with sex and the marriage ceremony is about joining people together, supposedly for life.

I doubt very much whether the parents at Anderton Park Primary school would take kindly to their children being taken to a christian church and role playing the marriage ceremony, in front of a christian Priest. I don't hear any stories of children being taken to mosques/synagogues, without their parents permission/consent and role playing the marriage ceremony with one of their Holy Men.....and if I did, I would be equally against it.

This is not the same as children playing make believe, on their own, in wendy houses, for example. Having an Authority figure tell them that they are now 'married' as in the eyes of God, will imprint the memory, far more strongly.

I am an ex psychiatric nurse and I participated in role play scenarios during my training, many many times and I am aware of what a powerful medium it is.

Certain things should not be role played. We already had someone comment in this thread about a child being expected to role play a suicide. I have read reports where schools have got into trouble for role playing slave auctions. A scenario where a child was tied to a post and whipped by another boy.

I have recently had the National Secular Society agree with my views, along with Christian Voice, along with a number of Priests, Teachers, Sunday school teachers etc.

If we can ban the use of conkers for fear of harm, then we should definately be banning the practice of role playing the marriage ceremony for fear of harm.

My dc's school did this when prince william got married. They picked a boy and girl from each class to be in the wedding party and ds1 who was in reception was a page boy. All the children and the teachers dressed up and they made paper flowers in class. It was really lovely.

I agree, but playing different characters from yourself is different from honouring/celebrating Prince William's or Prince Harry's wedding. 'Playing' out a ceremony, where you are representing yourself, exchanging sacred vows (which are one up from promises) in front of a representative of God, in a church building, promising to live together "as in the eyes of God" (which in my mind includes, sexual union), without their parents knowledge/consent, is ..... The church teaches 'no sex before marriage'.

I am not a "dirty minded puritan" as someone has suggested in the past - I am a realist. We have a 70% increase in child on child sexual abuse in our playgrounds according to Panorama and we have an increase in child mental health issues with the government wanting to put a mental health first aider in every school. We also have an increase in children being referred to gender identity clinics. If they can be confused about their gender at a young age (and Im not saying they're not) how much more can they be confused around issues of whether or not to act out the sexual union part of marriage. Its not enough to say, they're told it's make believe. Even adult actors tell us it is difficult to de-role.

I think it's quite revolting for children to have mock weddings; regarding mock Christenings, surely not all children in a primary school are from Christian backgrounds. Christening a doll makes a mockery of baptism anyway.

(No objection to kids dressing up and acting out scenarios such as putting on a net curtain veil & pretending to be a bride, etc but for the school to organise and publicise a kids' full wedding is, imo, gross.)

Kids pretend to do all sorts of things that adults do so there is a question as to where the boundaries should be. If they are going to do mock weddings it might be ok if they do one for several traditions faith-based or otherwise as then it is a learning experience and no one faith is given a privileged place. But a christening seems to be totally out of order. Frankly I’d not only refuse permission but send my kid in with copies of the UN convention on the rights of the child with a big circle round article 14.

I’ve never heard of this. What an absolutely horrible thing to do with zero educational value.

Yes Bitlost. Different if they were acting a part in a play or a dance in which there was a bride and groom but it wasn't a play, it was a mock wedding (and Christening). Quite inappropriate. I wouldn't have agreed to my child taking part in such an event.

I’ve never heard of this. What an absolutely horrible thing to do with zero educational value.

Apart from that pesky national curriculum that does require RE to be taught of course

Dd is in y9 now and a boy in her class still likes to remind her how they got “married” in Y1

For all those who say that they wouldn't give permission for these ceremonies - you might not have a choice.

If the ceremony is being done, in a classroom, they don't have to ask your permission to do role play. If it is being done in a church building, as is happening, up and down the country, there is doubt as to whether permission is being sought. My neighbour knew nothing about the trip to the church, until her young son, came home, after the event....

In response to 'Grumpyyetgorgeous' about the fact that the curriculum requires teachers to teach RE. of course, as a person of faith, who is interested in other faiths, I have no problem with that. The curriculum does not require that teaching of RE, to include role playing the marriage ceremony, and if you can show me, where it says that, I will be grateful.

Even if the parents give consent, there is a term called 'informed consent'. If you feel that you have no choice but to consent, due to fear of the consequences, that is not true choice. It is coercian.

I would have thought as a society, with all that has gone on regarding abuse, in the last few years, people would be more alert to this issue - it would seem not.

Yikes! I hope they don't do the 'dad' accompanying the 'bride' down the aisle and 'giving her away'. And the 'bride' changing her name! Sounds revolting anyway.

As the 'dad' accompanying the 'bride down the aisle and giving her away, and the bride changing her name are all part of a 'normal' wedding, there is no reason to suppose that these parts are omitted in these mock weddings.....

There are other parts to the real ceremony - kissing the bride, go forth and procreate, join in sexual union and 'living together in the eyes of God'. Need I say more.

If we have someone on this thread that 8 years down the line, is saying that her daughter is being teased by a boy she 'married' in year 1, it is very clear this 'ceremony' stays in the memory for a very long time. To be perfectly blunt, and I do not say this with any degree of joy, how much longer is it, before the possibility that this boy starts saying, to this girl he is teasing, "why don't we do what married people do?"

People might think this is funny and a 'bit of fun', I don't.

I have had a lot of experience of abuse - both personally and professionally and to me, a boy teasing a girl about being married is definately a red flag. I don't suppose, for one minute, she feels comfortable, 8 years down the line, with being teased about being married.

I have today attended a church service at Greenhithe (the church mentioned in the article) and he talked about an adult wedding ceremony, he recently officiated. He talked about using the phrase "All that I am is yours, and everything I have, I share with you". Obviously, I began to wonder whether he uses this phrase with the children, that he role plays the marriage ceremony with..

Do they do mock stag/hen nights...that could be a laugh!

This sounds creepy AF.

Formerbabe, I appreciate you are trying to find some humour in this situation, but child abuse is actually not that funny. Would it be a laugh to have 5 year olds drunk and having strippers in a nightclub - don't be rediculous.

It was a light hearted comment but I actually said it because I think mock weddings for children is actually a really weird and inappropriate thing to do. They wouldn't stage mock hen/stag nights, because it would be ridiculous and inappropriate so why mock weddings? They're both adult rituals and events. That was my point. Sorry if I offended you.

formerbabe - thanks for that. I thought you were serious. It was good of you to apologise and explain. Cheers.

Well I started reading this thread expecting three pages of "Of course not! Your school is weird!" but this seems quite common. I'm not at all sure what the learning objectives are or why the vol au vents are necessary.