Catholic school for non believers ? Or Not ?

[VeryBusy]

DS at local state primary but it's not delivering. It's time to bite the bullet and go private. There is a NICE school locally but is Catholic (we are not). They do mass every week etc. Other local private prep schools are super-pushy, exam focused above all, which is a step too far.

Does this matter ? Help am in a panic, have been so all year, need to make a decision....

[Pudding2be]

Seeker

Im a non practicing catholic with a catholic primary and secondary education

When I was studying GCSE RE the whole class brought up the subject of sex before marriage. Our teacher said that the teachings in the bible we're in keeping with the times they were wrote, and that we should interpret the bible to our modern day lives, and if we are in loving, adult long term relationships then why should it that not be ok? Would you say the catholic church still teach eye for an eye is acceptable?

I lost count at the amount of sex education lessons we had, including the use of contraception and how necessary it was to prevent pregnancy and infections, including aids. They even brought in healthcare professionals to discuss safe sex and why it's vital. There are two examples, I could go on.

I can't see where you are getting your viewpoint from Seeker. I think you need to research this further because it's sounding like you have a blinked 1960's catholic education system in mind?

Op - I had a positive education. Ok we had to go to mass every now and again, but the children who weren't catholic didn't have to. The good thing in my school was the ethos, emphasis on achieving whats right for you and discipline. It should be what's best for your children

Blackswan - more recently teachers and nursery workers have been in the media and have been abusing children. Do you home school your children and not send them to nursery?

[Fizzylemonade]

I have to agree with seeker, I went to a catholic school and we were taught these types of things. Maybe times have changed and things have moved on but we even lost a teacher who was single and pregnant because the school felt she was an unfit role model.

I believe the school was stricter than others but that was also because God is watching every move you make, knows every thought in your head, and you have to confess all your sins to a priest who drew back the curtain when you were in confession so he knew who you were.

I'm not sure you can opt out of the sacraments so your DS would have to do the whole confession, holy communion and confirmation bit. Don't forget the "original sin" part that means you are born a sinner.

I find the organised worship bit very judgypants, we even had parts of hymns sung within the mass that weren't on the board with the hymn numbers on so that only those who went every week would know what to sing.

I speak as a front bencher, yes, my mother was incredibly devout and strong in her beliefs. She also gave communion to the sick etc.

The whole thing made me feel unworthy, I suppose, as a child. Now however I am not catholic, I prefer the whole God loves everyone bit, not the judgemental crap that was spouted to me. Sorry.

I think you would have to think long and hard about the implications of these types of teachings for your child until they are 18.

[seeker]

pudding@be - are you sure you were at a Catholic school?

[seeker]

I do find it ...interesting..how Catholics seemt o be able to detach themselves completely from the Pope and the Vatican at will.

[uggmum]

My dd attends a catholic high school. We are not catholic. This school is one of the best in the country.

My dd has not been taught anything that 'seeker' has identified. She has received a balanced education. Schools really have moved on. Not all teachers at catholic schools are catholic.

My dd does attend mass at certain times during the year and she is quite happy with this.

I do feel that her school does look after her emotional welfare far better than our local state school does. They seem to have a real caring ethos.

I appreciate that no all catholic schools are the same. You need to go on a visit and discuss your concerns with them.

[sunnyday123]

i honestly dont think either have you have been to a catholic school recently! I am 33 and went to catholic schools and colleges and it was so different to how you describe! I agree with pudding that its like a 1960s point of view. I have friends with teenage kids at catholic schools and they are nothing like you describe. The primary my dd goes to doesnt sound anything like you describe. OP, go see the school as they are very different to the past and some only slightly more religious than community schools which still cover the basics.

I repeat though, i think parents choose schools depending on whats available locally in terms of alternative - if you are happy to choose a crap school over catholic just because you dont like the religious teachings, i think thats doing your kids an injustice imo.

[seeker]

Have it your own way. TheCatholic Church no longer believes in any of its core beliefs and even if it did, it wouldn't teach them children at Catholic schools.

[seeker]

And for the record, I think it's outrageous to describe any school as "crap". Particularly one that you haven't actually visited!

[PatientGriselda]

I do find it ...interesting..how Catholics seemt o be able to detach themselves completely from the Pope and the Vatican at will.

I found my Catholic schools very big on independence of mind. Maybe that's why.

[sunnyday123]

i haven't described any particular school as crap! I'm saying theoretically if someone only had crap community schools locally, i don't understand why they would then choose this over a catholic one. If non-catholics had good community schools locally, there would be no argument as most wouldn't consider catholic schools.

I was in that position. Im not catholic (i'm CofE) but DH is. When my DDs were born we looked at the schools available (bit premature i know!) and decided the catholic ones were best so had them baptised RC.

[NormanTebbit]

I don't understand. The Catholic church is actually pro contraception and us teaching children about it? That a loving homosexual relationship is actually part of God's plan?

Things have certainly moved on from Cathloic friends of mine being taught natural family planning before they got married a few years ago.

And Good news Filipinos, you no longer are condemned to having 12 children in a shack because some old man reckons condoms are a sin.

[NormanTebbit]

Hmmm homosexuality is still problematic it seems - it's ok but not like a real marriage and the ceremony should not be conducted in church, why is that?


"The Catholic Church in England and Wales has unequivocally condemned the Government?s plans to allow gay weddings in church. Archbishop Peter Smith of Southwark has really torn into the Coalition on this one, even though Catholic churches wouldn?t be forced to hold gay weddings ? or allowed to do so by the bishops. Here?s what the Archbishop said in a statement:
No authority ? civil or religious ? has the power to modify the fundamental nature of marriage.
The Equality Act was amended to permit civil partnerships on religious premises, which unhelpfully blurs the distinction previously upheld by parliament and the courts between marriage and civil partnerships.
A consenting minister is perfectly free to hold a religious ceremony either before or after a civil partnership. That is a matter of religious freedom, but it requires no legislation by the state. We do not believe it is either necessary or desirable to allow the registration of civil partnerships on religious premises. These will not take place in Catholic churches."

[seeker]

"When my DDs were born we looked at the schools available (bit premature i know!) and decided the catholic ones were best so had them baptised RC."

Wow. Not sure what to say to that really. Presumably you are going to take them to mass every Sunday and live a good Catholic life until they are safely in the school of your choice? What happens if the RC school starts to decline and the C of E one starts climbing the league tables? Is there a Sacrament of Unbaptism?

[NormanTebbit]

That's from The Telegraph

[KenDoddsDadsDog]

I am practising catholic, went to convent school and for the most part had a great education with emphasis on community, family and caring.
However, we were also shown the silent scream abortion film aged 11, weren't allowed to hold any charity days e.g Comic Relief or had decent sex education.
Now, 20 years on, our older priest delivered a sermon about homosexual sin only a few weeks ago. So whilst, in the main the teachings are love, responsibility etc, the issues which are wrong and outdated in my life still appear.
Will you be able to manage your DD being taught such views in this way, if it were to happen?

[sunnyday123]

i would have made my kids cofe or rc either way - RC come up first because my DH is quite religious and schools were better - either way they would have gone to a religious school of sorts. I fully support the school, its teachings and take my DD to church regularly - esp on school events etc so don't feel any guilt. Its not like we don't believe in god as we do. She is going to one of the top schools in the area and i feel i have made a great choice for her! Tbh even if we were not supportive of religion i would have sent her there as its the best and i would always at least try for the best for my kids. For the record the good cofe schools in my area are more religious and harder to get in than the catholic one.

[seeker]

sunnyday - do you genuinely not think there is a touch of hypocricy in your attitude?

[SheCutOffTheirTails]

"I do find it ...interesting..how Catholics seemt o be able to detach themselves completely from the Pope and the Vatican at will."

I find it "interesting" that you ever thought that they wouldn't be able to "detatch" themselves from the Pope and the Vatican.

Is it some suspicious of Papists that makes you think so many of your fellow countrymen are unable to think for themselves?

You criticise people calling a school crap without having been in it, but are quite happy to criticise a religion you appear to barely understand. I mean, I expect that kind of simplistic shite from Ian Paisley, but not so much from people who aim to be anything other than ignorant and bigoted.

The Catholic Church is indeed a deeply dodgy, fucked up organisation. But Catholics who have been brought up in that faith are bound to have a complicated relationship with that.

Did you really think that Catholics all went along with all the church's teachings? That well-educated people won't have their own opinions on the morality of contraception, gay marriage, ordaining women, sex outside marriage? That they'll just think "oh, this is what the pope says".

There are loads of Catholics who despise the current Pope, and the one before. Who supported Vatican II and dislike the current hierarchy and its direction. But who don't think that a bunch of distant old men get to decide what they think. Who understand Catholic theology and who take different opinions on things, who live their lives as good Christians as they see it.

Can you really think such a large organisation as the Catholic church would all be of one mind?

"When my DDs were born we looked at the schools available (bit premature i know!) and decided the catholic ones were best so had them baptised RC."

I think that's entirely fair enough. It's deeply unfair and wrong that any school receiving public money should be allowed to discriminate in its admissions on the basis of religion.

While that unfairness exists I can't see any moral problem with faking religion to get your children into the school.

The only reason not to is to avoid them being taught nasty Catholic stuff. Which is why I wouldn't send them unless I knew enough about how Catholicism worked to counteract it at home.

[seeker]

"our older priest delivered a sermon about homosexual sin only a few weeks ago. So whilst, in the main the teachings are love, responsibility etc, the issues which are wrong and outdated in my life still appear."

It's not just what some older out of touch priests believe - it's Catholic Doctrine! Reinforced by the Pope at regular intervals!

[seeker]

"but are quite happy to criticise a religion you appear to barely understand. "

OK - tell me what Ihave said about the Catholic Church that is wrong?

[NormanTebbit]

Shecutofftheirtails

First aligning comments with Ian Paisley and referring to 'papists' is hinting that views criticising the Catholic church stem from bigotry. They do not.

Of course there are millions of entirely sensible people who are Catholic and who take from it what they will.

Then you go on to say some teachings are 'dodgy' which is only what Seeker and others are saying. You are contradicting yourself.

And many poor women in the developing world would rather use contraception but do not have the means to pick and choose what to believe in. Contraception costs money and horrible guilt thanks to that church.

[seeker]

Thank you normantebbit. I decided wimpishly not to address the 'tribal" language - but I certainly noticed it!

[PatientGriselda]

I think that where you are wrong, seeker, is that you imply that Catholic people don't have a brain to think for themselves, and that by being Catholic means that they definitely definitely all totally support every bit of arcane dogma or dubious proclamation.

If you are a UK citizen, do you agree with every prime ministerial declaration? Every decision to go to war? No. But that doesn't make you less British. Same with Catholicism.

[seeker]

I don't thin catholics slavishly follow ever piece of arcane doctrine. But we're not talking about the sacred monkeys in the Vatican here. We're talking about things which the Pope has said, ex cathedra - are fundamental to the Church.

[PatientGriselda]

But seeker, so what? I'm catholic, the product of a formal catholic education, and regular church attendance, and guess what! I don't think those statements are good ones. And I don't think my teachers did either, for what it's worth. And there is an extremely good chance that the OP's children will be able to make those sorts of judgement for themselves too.

So what are you so anxious about? That they won't be able to?