Can a teacher please tell me what level this would be marked at?

[muffinflop]

This is exactly how it was written

*

The magic dragon

Once upon a time there was a magic dragon. He had 5 eyes, 3 mouths and 89 feet.

People kept running away from him! But they didnt know that he was a magic dragon.

The next day he had a thought about everything that had happened. Just then he said hmm I know I will cast a spell on them. That worked and then they all liked him.

Also, how many NC levels are children 'expected' to improve between September and July (ie a school year)?

Thanks!

Ben10isthespawnofthedevil I would mark that 1C ( depending on handwriting it may scrape a 1B) but it isn't possible to say what level a child is at from a single piece only what that piece is.

Thanks Mrz. With handwriting like his it would be a 1C .

I thought as much that he might have been marked at a level that they wanted him to be and not where he actually is!

This is a really interesting thread. Teachers - I'd be very interested to know how you'd level this writing; task was to 'Create an information sheet about mountains all over the world or a mountain'. (DD was using some printed out bits of info, so many of the spellings taken from these sheets.):

The Alps
[half page printed out labelled map, then]

As you can see on the map the Alps start in France and end in Austria going through Switzland and Italy.
This information leaflet talks about the geology and wildlife of the Alps

[next page]
geology

1. 2 plates collide (diagram)

1. they push each other up, and the result is a moutin range [diagram]

The Alps were formd when Italy collided with the rest of Europe.
The main movmet ended 6 million years ago.
The Alps are young for a mountin range.

Difficult to level because of the type of writing and not entirely independent

phonically plausible spellings (were they on the sheet? because if so I would expect them to be correct when marking)

Mountains was, the others not. Background is that I'm still wondering how worried I should be about dd's writing. She's in yr 4, we had a recent 'come and see the year's work' invitation, and I think its fair to say that the above (from current homework) is a fair summary. I didn't see any written work that she's done that was more than two paragraphs / under half a sheet of A4.

At least the last 4 sets of targets that she's had have been essentially the same (learn to spell the most common words / complete tasks within the set period / improve your working in a group), without any noticeable improvement. In her yr 1/2 class her teacher considered that she had a definite problem with written work, she was on a IEP and doing additional phonics, and was I think improving. Moving into yr 3/4, the IEP was dropped and she's apparantly 'doing fine'.

I'm feeling slightly frustrated following a recent conversation with her teacher / TA, which basically went:

me - 'I'm still worried about dd's writing and spelling'

teacher - 'Well, she's only been working in English for 2 years, so its to be expected that she will find it hard'

me - 'But her spelling in Welsh is much worse than in English' (origin of conversation was dd's complete failure to finish a piece of written work in Welsh)

teacher - 'Well, Welsh is her second language, so its not surprising that she finds it harder than English'

At the end of year 2 she was assessed as being just - and only just, according to her teacher - writing at level 2, but her school doesn't give any information on levels other than at the end of key stages, so I've no idea what level they consider her to be at now.

Apologies for the epic - I'm trying to decide whether I should try speaking to her teacher again, or whether to just assume that everything is fine and to stop worrying!

Based solely on that piece I would not consider her a level 2 but as I said that may not be accurate without knowing what other types of writing are like

Absolutely - and of course as a parent I only see what dd does at home plus what we see when invited in. But my feeling is that this probably is a fair reflection.

At which point, given that she was supposed to be a level 2 at the end of KS1, two years ago, and that her current teacher doesn't consider her to have any sort of a problem other than a failure to get on with things . . . what do I do???

We are currently spending 15 mins a day at home working with a phonics based spelling system, which does seem to be helping a bit, certainly in terms of actually including some vowels in words, for example. But given that dd hates writing with a passion, and already spends most of her day in school, it feels like there's only so much we can do at home.

Takver - I think a meeting with the teacher or SENCO is in order.

My experience is that school can be very reluctant to talk to parents about problems - even when they know damn well there is one.....

If they admit they are concerned, then you'll start to ask them what they're doing about it....... And you'll start to make noises about progress and all sorts of things they don't want to talk about.....

www.everybodywrites.org.uk/writing-games/details/sentence-games/

www.sentenceplay.co.uk/Games.htm

Who can make the silliest sentence using the words generated by the Sentence Lab

www.everybodywrites.org.uk/writing-games/details/creative-games-from-stories/

You write a boring sentence and together see who can make a more interesting one
I would probably use a white board so that mistakes can be quickly corrected.

Check her phonic knowledge www.phonicsinternational.com/Debbie%20%20Hepplewhites%20Say%20the%20Sounds%20test.pdf

That's really helpful - many thanks for that Mrz.

I think I am going to have to go back and have another try in school - its frustrating as we spent almost 2 years getting to this point in KS1, and now we seem to be back to stage 1 again :(

The 'problem' is I think that because dd reads (very) well, it seems as though she's just not trying with the writing.

We've had a very trying afternoon while she tries to do her half term homework (said mountain piece above). She has so many ideas, and is always immensely keen to start with - on this occasion she told me how she was going to do several pages, write about different mountain ranges across the world, etc etc. But then as soon as she has to put something on paper everything grinds to a halt and then as often as not she either explodes in frustration or ends up in tears.

My son was the same and they just kept saying "well he's a good reader" the EP included

That's it - there seems to be two things going on here; partly an assumption that because she can read well, the writing will 'just come' (well, we've been waiting for 2 years now, and it hasn't come yet), and partly an assumption that she's not trying, and if she did, then it would all be fine.

But I really don't think that it's the case - she was sat over the piece of writing above for about an hour, and is forever being kept in at playtimes to finish work. Surely it would be easier for her if she could 'just do it' :(

Now I have to decide whether to go and try again this school year, with only half a term left to go, or whether to wait until next year when she has a new teacher - but then it seems like I need to wait at least another half a term for her to be settled into that class.

I don't know whether its worth asking what her teacher's assessment of her current writing NC level is. The school don't report them other than at the end of KS1/2, but would they have an internal view? I guess that by the end of year 4 you could 'expect' her to be writing at level 3?

(FWIW she was assessed as working at level 3 in reading/oracy/maths/science at the end of KS1.)

How is your son now mrz? Did the writing ever 'just come' (I'm imagining though that you know all sorts of really good ways to help him . . . )

No his writing never just came and it's still an effort for him but at least now he can read his own writing

Hi Mrz

I have managed to get some homework out of my DS (Y1) this morning which was to research and write about the frog's life cycle. He says that it is more writing that he normally does at school and that this was his best work. He has bad handwriting printing with a mix of caps and lower case, never on the line and spacing between words is variable. The below takes up 2/3 of a piece of A4.

Would you cast your eye as you above said that his other piece of work would probably mean 1C, are we still around that sort of area rather than the 1B that the school is telling the EP - we are meeting with the EP this month so would be good to have an impartial view IYSWIM but I appreciate that you assess over a variety of work?
---------
Frog

DS 3th Jun 2011

The mummy frog lase eggs.
Theay ar calld frogspons.
Theay ar clack and whiT.
The eggs tern into tapoles.
The tadpoles Grow gils.
The back legs grow.
The frunt legs grow.
The Tadpoles grow a big mowth,
The Tals get smalar.
Theay tern into a frog.
---------
Many thanks

I would go with a 1B for that piece.
His spellings are plausible and easily understood.
He is showing he understands how to use full stops.
He has included information in sensible sentences which follow a logical sequence.

I would be looking for him to start his sentences in different ways so that they don't all start the/they and possibly join two sentences. So that would be his target for the next piece of writing (I would probably pick one or the other not both)

The mummy frog lase eggs calld frogspons. It is black and white (or It is white with black dots in the middle - bit more detail) type thing

Wow that was quick! Thanks Mrz. He achieved that with 1:1 ie me. He was going to write a list that just said

frogspon
tadpole
etc
etc

I tried to explain to him re the starting sentences with different words while we were doing it ie you could use next and he gave me his classic and continued to write Theay/The!

Will try the connecting instead. Thanks again

Yes it does make a difference if someone is there just to prompt and I think that is why there can be a huge difference between levels one year to the next.
Our Y1 teacher sits with the children in a small group and heavily supports the writing whereas I expect them to write with minimum support as a class and it does look initially that standards have fallen.

DS is in a mixed Y1/Y2 class with the Y1 meant to be the top 1/3 of Y1. The teacher definitely doesn't sit with them in small groups "supporting" them heavily. DS has dyspraxia and suspected ASD with the usual sensory problems so does struggle to keep on task. It is for this reason that I am trying to secure 1:1 even just for 30-60 minutes a day to support his writing at school.

I have a little boy with suspected ASD who struggles to remain on task (when he does his writing isn't bad and he has some lovely quirky ideas) so harsh as it sounds I've found an area in the classroom with no visual distractions (in a corner facing a blank board and all the class behind him out of view unless he turns around and he finds it much easier - he actually asks to sit there to write.

That has been suggested both by the private and NHS OTs Mrz but not carried out. I will make sure I push it with the school. However due to the
unhelpful disinterested useless teacher, I am just storing up the necessary info for the new teacher and for the EP visit

We have developed our school environment around the Communication Friendly Spaces concept which is great for all children but especially for kids with ASD

and on Elizabeth Jarman's site

A new idea we are going to try is a blank background behind the teacher so that there are no distractions (thinking a cream sheet or board)

I want to move to your school

Our EP is advising parents with children diagnosed ASD to look at us

I can see why Mrz - nowhere near Medway?!.

I would advise parents with children diagnosed ASD not to look at my school ATM!

However they tell me that when/if he gets a dx that they will then be able to get loads of support from the LA

I'm lucky that our ASD team will give advice without a diagnosis (and they say we are one of the best schools they work with ) and we are slowly developing staff expertise and have a head who is willing to try ideas in search of solutions.