Another junior school appeal!

[marysgarden]

Im lodging an appeal for junior place,i have done all the papers regarding my personal appeal case,but now i need to gather evidence for the arguments that may be presented from the lea why it would cause prejudice to admit another child. I have managed to track down the children that have been on roll since september 2006 to current 2011 and from what i can gather extra children have always been admited so for example the school takes a pan of 90 but some yr3 places over the years have 95 some yr 4 places have 91 and so forth,but then some years they drop back down to 89 etc over the years. Also they have had 2 years where a buldge class was created( I know this for sure as my eldest dd was one of the children in that class!) so im guessing this would be an advantage in my case as it shows the school can cope with extra pupils.Do i need to print out all these roll numbers to show the appeal panel? or do I present them on the day? I worry if i send this information in before hand the lea will look at my arguements and try to think of reasons around this and make up 'excuses'before hand. If anyone has any information on what to do for the best I woul be most greatful.

Also does anyone know on the roll number information sheet in one of the collums next to some schools there is the letter 'U' but i cant seem to find what this means?

On the whole, it's better if you can put your presentation (or at least the key points of it) on paper and submit it in advance. If you don't, the appeal may be adjourned for the LEA and panel to consider your evidence and you probably don't want to cause any extra delay.

The bulge class doesn't really help you, as it would have had its own classroom and own teacher (for which there would have been provision in the school budget). Arguing that a class should be increased from (say) 30 to 31 to accommodate your child as an extra pupil is a very different situation. What helps you here is that the infant class size rules don't apply and you can argue your case on the grounds that the 'prejudice' (ie disadvantage) to your child in not attending the school is greater than the prejudice to the school in admitting an extra pupil. The fact that there have been more than 90 pupils in some previous years also helps - you can ask the school how they managed the situation then and suggest that they could do the same now.

Look at the other current thread about junior school appeals.

The LA case will have the numbers in the current year groups on it and they may be over the 90 PAN but it would good to submit the information for other year groups before hand so that everybody can see them. I would actually include the fact that you know there was a bulge year because your son was in it. I agree with panelmember that it actually does not make any material difference but it just gives the panel the extra nudge that the school has coped with upto 30 extra pupils.
The LA representative will know about the numbers so you are not giving anything away. The only thing they can say and are really allowed to say is that they were the result of previous successful appeals, which again simply reinforces the idea that previous panels have thought that the school can cope with a few extra pupils.

Thank you very much for your advice. What i now am finding baffling is that the school offered 90 places for september 2010,the number of children on roll january 2011 is 95? When i called the appeals team they told me that all appeals for admission 2010 were refused,so where have these extra 5 children come from?

It is worth asking the question. It could be that the appeals team got it wrong and some appeals were successful or there have been some in year admissions due to people moving into the area with no places available at any school within a reasonable distance. There are other possibilities such as SEN children getting statements naming the school.

The LA should be able to tell you where the extra children have come from.

It is absolutely imperative that the LA explain how those 5 extra pupils have been admitted. If nobody got a place at the block appeals (sorry slang for the reception year appeals) then they have to be either pupils without a place and therefore admitted under the fair access protocol or the LA admitted 5 because a subsequent mistake on the initial allocation was found or admission panels admitted 5. Those are the legal ways that they could be there.
What would be ideal for you is the school admitted them on their own, illegally of course , as that would leave the door wide open for you to argue if they could do that last year why can't they do it this year. No matter what the reason it does give you a clear mandate to argue the school can cope with more than 90.

Thank you very much for your advice,I shall give the LEA a call first thing tuesday morning and see if they can explain where the extra 5 have come from.
I think with this information and my own personal case which falls into exceptional reasons,im just praying im onto a winner here and the panel are sympathetic to my case. Im also the only one who is appealing for the school,so im hoping that will make the decision even easier for them!! Cant wait till this all over!!

Hi does anyone know if children with SEN are admitted under the usual admission criteria? so if a school has offered 90 places, children with SEN will be included in that 90?

Children with a statement of SEN are handled differently. They have to be admitted to the school named on the statement even if that school is already full. The school cannot under any circumstances refuse entry to a child with a statement of SEN. The normal admission criteria do not apply to SEN children.

Normally the LA will try to get all potential statements sorted out in advance of the normal admissions round so that if, say, there were 5 children with statements naming the school they would only then admit another 85 pupils. However, if the normal admissions round is over and then 5 children get statements naming the school they will be admitted, leaving the school with 95 pupils in that year.

so in that case does that mean i cannot argue that the school can cope with more pupils? If sen children have to be admitted?

what i mean is can i can argue that the school can cope with more pupils even if they are not statemented because they have taken over the PAN number? but the LEA may say that these children have SEN statements so they will obviously recieve a place over the pan number, so the school will cope,but with unstatmented children it will cause prejudice?

You know that these 5 extra pupils were all admitted in the autumn term from your figures but do you know that they all were admitted on the basis of SEN statements ?

Five pupils with SEN statements being admitted to one school in the term after they started seems a very curious and unlikely scenario, especially at year 3.

You can make any arguement that you like, but obviously having 5 over PAN with non SEN pupils is a far stronger argument to admit 5 in your child's year than if they were all SEN statemented children when the school has no jurisdiction really over the admissions

Found out that the children who were admitted were children with hearing impairments as the school has a hearing unit,the hearing unit had less numbers last year so they said they could offer these children a place which is why it took it over PAN. Is that still classed as the school can take extra pupils without prejudice? I know that these children are treated no differently(and rightly so) and are in the classroom with the other children and all they have that is different is they have their own separate group times throughout the week,just like other children have their own separate maths or english group time,so to me it feels like the school can cope with more pupils. I know I also have my own personal case for my dd wanting this school,but im just worried that the LEA are going to have an answer for everything!

Do they have statements of SEN?

You can put forward the argument that this indicates the school can cope with more pupils regardless of the answer to that question. However, as Admission says, it becomes a much weaker argument if they were admitted with statements.

The normal situation is that pupils that have a statement of SEN and are in mainstream classes are part of the admission number providing that they are admitted at the normal round of admission. If they are admitted after the normal round of admission with a statement naming the school then they are admitted over and above the admission number.
If the school has a designated unit for hearing impairment then normally they are counted outside of the admission number and the unit is designated for a number of pupils, typically 8 or 12. That does not stop the LA admitting more to the unit if the school is happy to do so, but normally they would not be counted as part of the admission number. So the appeal would say something like 90 in mainstream with a further 12 attached to the hearing impairment unit.
Suddenly finding 5 pupils all in year 3, all with hearing impairment SEN statements all seems a bit of stretch unless they all came from an infant hearing impairment facility. But then why were they not admitted at the normal entry time. Very peculiar.

How did u get on? I'm also appealing for a yr 5 place. Written appeal submitted, just waiting for the hearing. just wondering if u were successful?