Scotland - apparently deferring children's P1 entry can disadvantage them???

[solongandthanksfor]

Just saw this article:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-13453240

Have to say I am really surprised by Marilyne Maclaren's comments. We are in the position of trying to decide whether or not to defer our ds for P1 and not one parent I have spoken to about deferral has said they have regretted the decision. Also, aren't there a lot of studies (admittedly done in England) which demonstrate that summer-born children (ie the youngest children in the year) often lag behind their older peers?

Can't help thinking it's about money - Edinburgh Council in a not very subtle attempt to dissuade parents from deferring.

I'm also in Edinburgh and had this article brought to my attention by my mum. The cut off date is 1st March, dd1 birthday is 4th March and as she was very bright I looked at the possiblity of appealing to start her at 4.5 but was advised by the nursery against it, dd2 is a summer birthday so she'll start at 5 but dd3 is a Feb birthday. It would mean she would be expected to start school 11 months younger than DD1 started. She starts nursery next week and I already know that I am going to defer her. They are at school for a minimum of 11 years so I don't see why they are trying to rush them in . My husband was a 4.5 starter and said he felt he spent his whole schooling trying to catch up.

What have the nursery advised? Also, from friends experiences boys are not usually as advanced as girls at that age, so if in doubt I'd defer. I'm going to. Good luck.

I deferred my dd in 2004 after all the strikes led to her missing lots of nursery and also because had she been born on time she would have been in the year below anyway.

I am a NN so knew what I was talking about and astounded the nursery by saying she needed deferred and that they'd been trying to work out how to approach me with it.

I've never regretted it and my niece who was born in January was deferred and came out of school with all 1's in her standard grades and all A's in her highers.... so she was bored right enough! I hope I can prove Mclaren wrong in this instance but the article upset me last week but I refuse to let someone with no knowledge of working in nursery or school's tell me with experience that I have been wrong.

Me and dh are december birthdays. I struggled all the way through and dh switched off at high school and his immaturity showed through. Other european schools don't send until 6 or 7 so why the rush in the uk to send them to school so early.

I also know one school who often recommend deferal for Sept onwards to try and get catchment children numbers down.

Hi have deferred by DD starting school this month. She is a February birthday and I just don't think she is ready. She does not seem as mature as some of her peer group and is also very shy. That extra time in Nursery will hopefully help, but I do wonder if it is the right decision. The School and Nursery gave us little support with the decision but I do feel, along with a number of other parents that we were pushed down the line of deferment as the intake is so large. I am sure it will turn out for the best in the long run. Eeveryone I have spoken to that have deferred in the past say they do not regret it.

im impressed with flexablity in scottish system

my youngest boy april birthday worry about if i defer until hes 5 he misses reception.

I sometimes wonder whether I would have deferred dd1(mid feb) & 2 (end feb). In England so middle of year- 4.5 when started. I think probably better to defer if most peers do, but academically they did manage, and in both of their classes some of the children at top of class are the youngest(barely 4 when started). I think at 4.5 they can manage it and learn too, but hard in terms of being youngest at other end of education. I knew someone starting uni at 16 never having left the Island he lived on - think that is tough.

I didn't defer ds2 - birthday 27th feb. he was desperate to go to school to join his brother.
Because he's tall for his age some of his teachers haven't even known that he was the youngest.
He's also been in composite classes a lot, which they divide by age, so he's been with his peers .
It's worked fine for him. I do wonder what it'll be like when he finishes high school at a very young age, but I've got no regrets at this stage.

To deal with the OP's questions. ..

Yes there is evidence that summer born children lag behind their older peers.

The research on deferring is limited. As far as I am aware there has only been one study. This looked at children in Scotland where parents had deferred entry for a full year. It found that the children were performing at a similar level to their peers on entry but had fallen behind by the end of P3. This is, of course, only one study and, even if it is correct, your child may be different.

I think the report is rubbish, Use your instincts as a mother, you know your own child best. I deferred one of my kids as they where not ready for school In opinion that was the best decision I made for them.

On the other hand my other child went to school younger they where ready, adapted well to the sitution. They both have February birthdays so I had the choice. I am glad I did it.

I have not read the study prh47bridge refers to but you have to remember that it is only relatively recently in Scotland that parents with Jan/Feb born children have been automatically allowed to defer. Unless this study was very recent I don't think it would be representative of the children who are now deferred. Previously it was hard to defer so it was often children who had additional needs and were also young for the year. So there could be other reasons why they would be behind by p3.

As a teacher and a parent of one deferred child I would say defer if you feel it is right for your child. I don't know anyone who regrets deferring and several parents who have said they wish they had deferred.

The study is recent enough to cover the current situation. Also remember that the study said that the children were performing at the same level as other children of their age at the time they entered school so no evidence that these children had additional needs.

What the study doesn't tell us is the longer term outcome. Do these children have better academic qualifications when they finish education than those whose parents did not defer. The fact that they fall behind others of their own age group in the first few years doesn't necessarily mean that they stay there.

prh47bridge - could you give us the name of the study? I'd be really interested to read it.

Definitely not a disadvantage for my son, who is 4 until November. There is no way putting him in P1 this year could ever be an advantage to him educationally. He is far, far too emotionally immature.

Beatrice, it's not all that new in Scotland. My DS1 is now 26 and a graduate; I chose not to defer his entry to P1 (Jan baby) against the prevailing advice. Ten years after that, my sister chose to defer her February baby against prevailing advice; he is now 16 and has just gained the qualifications he needs to do the college course he wants.

It does seem to me that the "prevailing advice" was entirely funding-driven at least in part.

I see this is a resurrection of an old thread, but it's still a very topical discussion.

We deferred DS1 as he was a mid-feb birth and had he been born just 2 weeks later he would have automatically gone this year anyway. He isn't a big child and we felt that although he could have coped with the work, he would have been at a disadvantage physically. He starts in a couple of weeks and we're very glad we deferred.

I think it's a matter of what you feel is best as a parent. It's nice to at least have the choice so we are very lucky in that respect.

beatricequimby - I can't remember it off the top of my head and I don't have time to go searching at the moment but it is on Scotland.gov.uk in the education section somewhere.

I live in England where there is no option to deter. However I don't think you can compare an English reception class to P1 in scotland. An English reception class is very similar to nursery. Infact many English schools have a mixed foundation stage and children are able to select activites that they are ready for.

Its is an article against detering or "redshirting" as it is called in the US.

www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/blogs/nurture-shock/2009/09/03/should-children-redshirt-kindergarten.html

"Elder and Lubotsky couldn't find any merit in redshirting─waiting a year to educate a child. Because what is more of an enriching intellectual experience for a child than going to school? ?Our estimates clearly indicate that children?s reading and math abilities increase much more quickly once they begin kindergarten than they would have increased during the same time period if they delayed kindergarten entry,? the scholars wrote.

So that?s the choice parents face: is a 2-point statistical advantage worth having a child sit on the sidelines of learning for a whole year?"

However you cannot compare the US with scotland as most Scottish children have access to a high quality nursery and are not twiddling their thumbs.

I have a son (now 16) and a daughter (now 14) who are both January birthdays. My son was refused deferral in the area we were living, but didn't have a good year at school, we moved a year later and he started P1 again, so effectively deferred. My daughter was sent into P1 at 4.5 based on the recommendation of the nursery.

My son benefitted hugely from his deferral and has just done extremely well at his exams, he has always been in the top groups academically, mainly because of his age advantage. My daughter is going into 4th year with great grades, but socially hasn't always found it easy being the smaller and younger of the year group.

I believe one downside of deferral is when they get to 4th year they are already 16 and of age to leave school before the exam diet comes around, luckily my son had no intention of doing that but another child might.