Help - DS struggling in Yr 2

[smashingtime]

We've just been told DS isn't making enough progress and that his SATS scores are likely to be 1c for Maths, 1b for writing and they feel he may need extra help. His reading is good - should be 2a although they've put 2b because he couldn't write down his answers to the test. I feel really worried as he is a dreamy boy, lives a lot in his own head and just doesn't want to do anything remotely academic. I just feel he is going to fall so far behind

Anyone else have similar worries or had a child who was behind but has now caught up (please give me hope )

they feel he may need extra help - He needs significant extra help. You should be worried.

And you need to be a PITA and get them to tell you what they are going to do.

Those scores are really bad. Don't put your head in the sand about this.

My dd sounds just like your boy - she got 1's across the board for her yr 2 SATS. She is improving in yr 3 but is still behind. Her reading has improved a lot but her writing is still not good, so we've bought some handwriting practice books. DH does extra maths with her. Does your ds like the computer? Education City has been good for dd. Does he have an IEP? I'm a bit surprised his school have waited so long before flagging concerns - dd's had an IEP since the start of yr 2. Don't lose heart, there's still plenty of time for him to catch up! :)

I might just add, we changed dd's school before the end of yr 1 as her old school didn't support her at all. If we'd moved her earlier she might have been given extra help before yr 2. I'm not saying you should do this of course - am just surprised they've only highlighted issues now, at SATS time!

I'd be worried that the school havn't raised these issues earlier-his teacher must have known he was struggling. I would be going in to see what booster groups or other help was being offered

Smashing: dd1 is in the same boat. She's doing her sats this week. Expecting 1cs/1bs.

I've worked as a TA with YR2 and YR3 in sat-free Wales. There are big differences between children's abilities in any class, and it's very hard for teachers with 30+ pupils to give enough extra attention to those that struggle. Some naturally catch up, but others fall further behind. Even with IEP work and a TA there often isn't enough intensive or sustained intervention.

There is one place however which can give this. Home. Even 10-15mins every night of spelling/maths etc can make a difference. Really easy to say but hard to do, especially with a reluctant dreamy tired-at-the-end-of-the-day child like mine (and tired me), but if I know from experience that if I don't do it no-one else will.... so I'd better get started.

15 mins a day at home is unlikely to help a child who is a 1c.

A 1a yes it would help, but a 1c means they are struggling incredibly. They're not a bit behind. They're an awful lot behind.

To be that behind there is some reason why they're not learning. It is not from being overlooked by the teacher. They have been in school 3 years and have not really learnt anything.

Themildmanneredjanitor - have you been there? Have you had a child who is a 1c at the end of Y2?

I am only speaking from my experience with my DD when I say that 15 mins a day at home doesn't help at all. I certainly have been there / am still there. I have been doing 10 mins a day at home with my DD for the last 2 years. It has not helped.

And I certainly didn't wait till the end of Y2 for that. I worked with her every day all through Y2 and Y3.

The only time 15mins a day at home will help is if the OPs child has had rubbish teaching for the last 3 years. And while that's possible, it's not all that likely unless the child has actually had the same teacher for the last 3 years.

Being positive won't help. Taking serious action will. Being positive is a nasty habit teachers have. Being realistic is far more helpful.

If you have never worked with a child like this it is hard to believe how hard it is. But nothing you do with them works. They just can't learn.

I've only been on this board a year, but I don't remember any parent in that time reporting that they were able to help their child who was that far behind with 15mins a day at home.

Indigo, children don't make good progress in the early years, or throughout their school days, for a vast variety of reasons. Establishing why this might be is a good idea, but many children simply mature more slowly than others, and the exceptionally early start to formal schooling in English-speaking countries is a problem for such children, as is the enormous memorisation /rote-learning burden for writing (bed, said, head; blue, shoe, flew through...) Some children will just never be very good at that.

And the thing which makes the biggest difference in most cases is: individual help with reading and writing. This can be a very hard thing for parents to give, but it's hugely worthwhile. You got your dd all kinds of assessments and other help, but the regular help u gave, if u did, probably made the biggest difference of all.

We had to work really hard, regularly, for about 20 minutes a day, for about a year, to help our son with learning to read words like 'said, friend, beautiful, through, thought, people'. I know how hard this is with your own child - without getting anxious, angry or desperate. Sometimes u just have to stop and try again later or another day. And for most of his school days we still just had to accept that his spelling was not good.

We were lucky. By about age 8 he got hooked on reading. He is also bright, never had a problem with maths and in the end learned to spell well enough for his needs. - But some children are not that bright, even if they have bright parents (as I know from being a helper at a club for people with learning difficulties for the past 30 years). They never learn to write well or to score well in SATs. The worst thing that happens to such children is their parents stopping loving them and give up on them because of it. Luckily, most don't.

But I hate the inconsistencies of English spelling more than I can say because they make life for anyone with less than average learning abilities so much harder than need be. They condemn those who learn a bit more slowly than most to learning much less than they could, than their equals can in other languages. - If u want to know more about my views on English spelling, read my blogs. Masha Bell

the regular help u gave, if u did, probably made the biggest difference of all.

No. The regular help I gave made no difference at all. Absolutely none. (Untill we did AIT, then it started to help)

By about age 8 he got hooked on reading

The odds of a child who is a 1c in reading at 7 being able to read at 8, let alone being hooked on it, are pretty slim. I'm sure it happens. But it's statistically unlikely. Again false hope and being positive for the sake of it does not help.

I'm not saying don't work with your child at home every day. Do! I can give you endless suggestions on what to do. If you want to help with maths try numicon. Or kumon or andrew brodie or power of 2, if you want to help with reading try apples and pears. Or headsprout or ClickNKids or toe by toe or phonics international or 'teach your child well'.

I'm saying it's unlikely to help, unless there was a problem with the school, and so you are going to need to do other things as well.

Otherwise you'll be where I am. Desperate. At the end of Y3 and a level 1b and school still making sympathetic noises at you.....

I'm surprised the school have not flagged this before now. What did they say at the parents evenings over the last few years? What did the school report say last summer?

I'd be asking the school what they are doing about it as clearly your DS needs help.

On a practical note, have you had your son's eyes (with Vision Therapy) and ears checked properly? Rule out anything physical that could be affecting his learning. Then, take it from there.

i would suggest starting from what he can do, and i agree with previous posts who recommend you helping, little and often. You need to meet with the teacher and SENCO and find out where you are starting from-
Can he write his full name, neatly?
Does he know some basic phonics, ie spell cvc words correctly all the time?
does he leave spaces between words consistently? use full stops? write in full sentences?
does he know number bonds to 5? 10? 20? 100?
can he count in 2s? 5s? 10s?
can he name and describe 2d and 3d shapes?
Once you know what he can do, it should be easier to work out teacher/senco what the next steps are.
Ask exactly what help will be given in school, by whom, when and where. will he get help in a pair/group or 1:1? and how you can support this.
it sounds like his Y2 sats scores will be poor but you have time to ensure he catches up in the long run. i would also try to work out what he's really interested in, eg if it's lego, then use lego bricks for practical number work. work outside in the garden, on the computer or use rewards to motivate him, stickers or a story when he's finished. but keep it short and focussed 10-15 mins, at first.

If you google "app maths grids" you can look at the guidelines for levelling (for reading, writing, maths.) If you could highlight the things he can do it might help see what he needs to do next.

Level 1 for maths includes things like counting 10 objects and describing simple shapes (so really some quite basic things) so it would be a bit of a worry if he really was a 1c. On the plus side you could easily practice this kind of stuff at home.

Writing - what would a typical piece of his writing be like? I'd say it was more common to find this tricky than the maths at this stage.

Re the reading test, I am 99% sure they can scribe his answers, as it is a reading test not a writing test, plus they should be using teacher assessment which can all be done orally.

(I teach Y2 when not on maternity leave!)

Forgot to say, if he was in my class he would have an IEP for his maths and writing, involving perhaps 10 minutes a day 1-1 time with a TA working on these areas.

Thanks some very helpful posts on here although not sure I needed to hear that his results were 'really bad'

The school have been giving him extra support for 2 terms now but are concerned that his writing is not really improving enough. I have raised his hypermobility issues (again) and they are taking it seriously this time because his letter formation is loose.

His reading is very good - he reads fluently but it is the polarisation with his writing they are concerned with and the fact that he doesn't always appear to hear the teachers instructions. He is getting there with number bonds but has been frightened of doing maths up until very recently. They think it is a lot to do with maturity - he is young for his age - but are not ruling out a slight auditory problem which is what they have been working with.

I completely take on board what you have all said about working with him more at home. I do practically nothing with him at home with regards his writing because it is such an uphill battle. I feel guilty, yes, and will be trying much harder but I want to maintain a positive relationship with my son which is going to be difficult because he hates writing so much.

I just want to hope that this isn't indicative of his future academic ability as I have read that Yr 2 SATS are a good indicator of this

Problems with fine motor skills can be worked on. The fact he's reading fluently is great!

My dd1s teacher has talked to me about Maths Anxiety (something I know only too well about myself as I have this). Dd does have this and when presented with something she finds a bit difficult will switch off, go blank, forget - it's mainly a confidence thing.

Auditory problems: this is a subject I also know about as my dd2 is hearing impaired, possibly with an additional auditory processing disorder (APD). Contact Dolfrog on the Special Needs board for a wealth of info on auditory difficulties. For that matter, try that board for advice on hypermobility/motor skills too as the people there are very helpful and very well informed.

As for Yr2 sats determining future academic ability - not a chance. Intelligence, memory, enthusiasm to learn etc: these variables are not static throughout your life and these are what makes a successful academic.

I understand the difficulty in "forcing" extra learning at home. You have to be adept at turning things into a game and bribing rewarding heavily!

Thanks kissingfrogs

DS definitely shows signs of maths anxiety and I think his way of dealing with stress is to switch off. I will try the SN board - am on there a lot about my DD who has physical difficulties. I don't think I've considered that DS has a specific problem up until now - more just his personality hindering his learning! I think it might be time to develop more strategies to help him though. Poor DS has been a bit neglected over the last few years as we've had so many worries about DD!

I think indigobell is trying to be brutally honest with you to spur you into action.
I'd get onto the school and also make up a plan to do some extra work at home with him. I'd not worry too much about upcoming SATs. Think of longer term....You'll have to bribe and reward but it will really be worth it once you see an improvement. It will get better. Try putting some goals down together with him and work out how long and what treats you can have too

kssingfrogs, have you tried doing it in the morning? I was struggling to get through things with tired tearful DS at the end of the day, but at half six he's raring to go, so we often get half an hour done before school, it really seems to work

I don't think Indigo is being harsh - DS is dyslexic and gets loads of extra support and was 1c at the end of year 1, so at the end of year2, it really is time to take action. it doesn't need to involve panic, but you do have to steel yourself for a hard time

smashing time: my dd was level 1 writing in Y2, and school simultaneously was far too overly positive about this 'achievement' and overly dismissive about her needing extra help. I remember finding it a struggle to get suitable support for her during junior years - she did eventually get some regular English support from a TA - and I tried to do bits with her at home.

Might be happy for you to know that she's nearly passed 4 A-levels and is about to go to good uni to do a fab degree :)

Can come right in the end, but you do need to get proper assessment now, and prob do extra work with her at home - but with support your DD will prob be fine. My DD seemed to get the hang of doing academic 'stuff' when she was about 11/12!

cordova unfortunately dd1 is not a morning person - she's like a mini-teenager who has to be turfed out of bed for school and would happily sleep in 'til 10!

smashing you and me are in the same boat at the mo. I've been so wrapped up in dd2s problems that I've struggled to grasp the reality that dd1 needs help too.

Maths anxiety: I thought I must have dyscalculia when attempting to get a maths gcse as an adult (failing maths as a child). I'm pretty bright, well educated, but doing basic maths is cripplingly hard for me. I can not memorise my times tables, I still use my fingers to count. I could spend a day learning how to do one type of sum then discover the next day that the memory of how to do it has completely gone and I have relearn it all over again. I get in such a muddle that I make silly mistakes, feel dreadful and then go blank. Wondering what on earth was wrong with me I got myself assessed by the college to see if I had a learning difficulty re maths. I thought I had done appallingly in the maths part of the assessment. I hadn't, I scored nearly average. I was told I had maths anxiety - too right! I got my gcse by using over-repetition (drilling every day), writing in red ink on yellow paper (read somewhere it burns into your memory better?) and swotting hard right up to the exam start. Needless to say, a great deal of what I learnt has slipped back out of my memory because I've stopped learning/using it now and I'd fail that exam if I had to do it today.

The reason for the essay above is that it might help you understand the maths thing. I see it in my dd1 and that's why I'm advocating do-a-little-every-day. Repetition, repetition, repetition.