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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

opinions needed about morning lateness...

61 replies

globalmouse · 16/05/2011 10:39

ds is starting school in september, and it's all a bit of a nightmare as far as childcare is concerned. He goes to a childminder already when I work, but she has other school drop-offs to do, and so he would be late on the 2 mornings she childminds him. Only by about 10-15 mins, but still late.
I am looking into a new childminder, but there aren't any with vacancies around here! I don't know any other mums he could go with, and to be fair, I can't expect another mum to have him from 7.30 2 days a week anyway.
They don't run a breakfast club.
So he will get a late 2 days a week. Do you think this matters??

OP posts:

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create · 16/05/2011 20:55

DrNortherner, how is it the school's issue what happens when the child's not there? It's a difficult issue, but not the school's and I think they'd take the view that it can't be impossible to find a suitable CM

kickingking · 16/05/2011 21:01

It will matter, and you will probably end up with the EWO being involved. It is seen as your responsibilty to get your child to school on time, regardless of your circumstances. I know this is a pain, I am speaking as a primary teacher and a working parent!

The school should have a famly liason officer or a home-school support worker or something like that, who should be able to help you find soloutions. Some childminders who do drop off and pick up do not advertise and rely on word of mouth, but you'd need to be involved in the school to know about them.

Lara2 · 16/05/2011 21:10

Schools are judged harshly in OFSTED inspections with regard to lateness and absenteeism. If a child is 10 minutes late for school then they are marked absent for the whole morning. The register closes 10 minutes after the start of the school day - a day is divided into 2 parts and if your child is absent for a day that's 2 absences. The powers that be really don't give a toss about how hard it is to find a childminder who can get your child to school on time or not - it's a parent's responsibility to get the child to school on time. My school has recently had an inspection and we narrowly missed outstanding because of a few points - one being attendance. We have a big problem with lateness and it's not an hour late, it's often 10 - 15 minutes late on a regular basis.
Also, the beginning of the school day is hugely important to children - they hate being late whatever the reason.

BranchingOut · 16/05/2011 21:41

Lateness is a significant disruption to other children in the class too, especially the 10 - 15 minutes that you are talking about. As a Reception teacher I have often had a situation where everyone is quietly sitting on the carpet, just getting into the key points of the first lesson and then the door opens, a child enters, they go through the rigmarole of putting away their equipment etc, parent tries to catch your eye to communicate the reason or some other message, or they disturb the TA who may have begun working 1 - 1 with a child.... It breaks up the flow and then you have to get 30 four and five year-olds back on task. I can assure you that it will be a problem and the school will want to speak to you about it before long.

Ideas you might want to consider:

Advertising for a student, retired person or similar to cover those mornings.
Putting the word around and asking if any TAs at the school would be interested in before school employment. Depending on their start time, they could supervise your child in the playground, deliver them to Reception and then nip into their own class.

cinnamongreyhound · 16/05/2011 21:51

I am a Childminder and although I haven't done it myself I know others who have taken on new children who go to a different school with the same start time and they dropped off their existing children at the regular time but the new children 10mins early and the school were happy to accommodate the child sitting in reception for 10mins at the start of school, would the school/Childminder not agree to that?

I agree with others that 10-15mins late is not acceptable but I'm afraid I have no other suggestions. I do have friends who have asked for flexible working and have been told that they veto consider it but will not do anything more than consider it :(

elphabadefiesgravity · 16/05/2011 22:05

It seems that the poor OP can;t do right for doing wrong. If her child is late then she will be judged, is she gives up work in order to get her child to school on time then she will be relying on benefits and be judged.

I'm really sorry OP that I can't offer any suggestions. Yes it will be disruptive if your child is late 2 days a week but there is little you can do.

Carry on advertsiing and asking around but if it has to be, it has to be.

Schnullerbacke · 16/05/2011 22:14

The only thing I can think of is maybe contacting the local paper and have an appeal to CMs in there or mention the shortage of CMs. Someone may come forward and help you out.

easycomeeasygo · 16/05/2011 22:32

i will have a similar problem too OP, my son has been allocated a school that is different to the one his brother is in, they are just over 2 miles apart and start at the same time, so one of them will be late for school, do the LEA give a damn???? no! so when Mr or Mrs EWO come knocking on my door i will send them on their way back to the LEA! and then they can explain why my son is late for school every day pfft.

Sorry, i've got no constructive advice for you and i really hope you get a solution to your problem.

Original poster

globalmouse · 16/05/2011 22:58

Thanks for all your messages. Some really good ideas in there. I particularly like the idea of him being dropped off early. Or a TA having him for a bit.

I must confess I am a teacher! Don't flame me for not saying! I didn't want to say, as I really could not see a solution, even working in a school myself, and thought I would be judged harshly for being in the profession but not having an answer.

IME 10 mins late would not be disruptive to my class (Y2), but I wanted to hear other's opinions, especially as reception is so different to KS1. If it happened in my class, I would let a child come into the class early or I would accommodate him being a bit late, but I couldn't see this as a possible solution as the school ds is going to were just so unhelpful. They didn't suggest anything helpful, just said I had to get him in on time.

Ok, so I will call the school and ask if they know of any childminders, or it's possible for him to be dropped off early and sit outside the office, then I can organise a child minder from there. I know it's early to be thinking about this, but I like to have things sorted, especially with so many other things being up in the air in my life at the mo. Ds is extremely shy, and would need to settle with any new childminder before the whole new school thing happens too. And if they say no, then he will just have to be late and the EWO can come and visit me for all they like.

the worst thing is I am turning into one of those parents that annoy teachers! haha!

OP posts:

Bohica · 16/05/2011 23:14

I'm trying to sort appropriate childcare for 3 children at the minute.

Advertise in a post office/sweet shop near to your local high school offering to pay a mothers help to walk your DS to schooll (teenager interested in childcare)

Speak to a neighbour that you like & ask them - you don't get if you don't ask.

Advertise in your local paper.

Put an advert on your school noticeboard & ask the school to put a notice in the school weekly news.

Put an add on the childcare board with netmums. This is how we found most of our emergency/back up childcare.

MammyT · 16/05/2011 23:54

Can you consider getting an au pair?

Ahojj · 17/05/2011 07:20

Telling the school "THEY WILL BE LATE until you run a breakfast club" will not work, as you will simply get an education officer involved investigating and taking action about the lateness. This is on the parent to sort out, not the school - especially with funding for pre/after school clubs being slashed.

Find it hard to believe the OP has no friends who can help out AND get the children there in time. But lateness is no excuse and disrupts the learning of the first session of the day (which can often be the most important/most useful), and that of all of the other children. Pretty selfish.

Ahojj · 17/05/2011 07:21

And wow, just read that you're a teacher. And you're still considering asking if he can sit outside the office? Can't wait for someone to explain child protection to you. Gosh.

Goblinchild · 17/05/2011 07:25

How is the child sitting outside the office in school a child protection issue?

rainbowinthesky · 17/05/2011 07:33

Confused, Ahojj, you mentioned child protection being an issue with a child sitting outside a school office for 10 minutes. How is this so?? I am a teacher and I haven't had this explained to me before. Could you perhaps enlighten us?

rainbowinthesky · 17/05/2011 07:33

Crossed posts with goblinchild.

Goblinchild · 17/05/2011 07:36

Well, I'm a teacher too, I find other people's interpretations of things interesting. Especially if I have a different view.

Goblinchild · 17/05/2011 07:39

Not that I think the school are likely to allow him to be dropped off and left as a regular solution, because if they do it for one, then all will follow.
Just wondered where the CP issues were.

mrz · 17/05/2011 07:39

I'm a teacher and also the designated person with responsibility for CP and agree with Goblinchild and rainbowinthesky.

mrz · 17/05/2011 07:42

We actually did this for a short time for a child who had moved into the area. His mum dropped him off with the secretary so she could get the bus to work. The LEA were aware of the situation and had no problem with it as a short term solution.

WizardofOs · 17/05/2011 07:49

At my children's school they are supposed to be their by 8.50 but if they arrive at 9 it would not be a huge problem. I see people bringing their kids in late every morning and nothing seems to happen.

kickingking · 17/05/2011 08:45

Find it hard to believe the OP has no friends who can help out AND get the children there in time

Why? It's not that odd. I'm also a teacher whose child is starting Year R is September and I don't know any other parents at his school yet. He has been at a private nursery near where I work and is going to school near where we live. We will be using an off site breakfast club, but I did have real fears of ending up up in the OP's situation!

fluffles · 17/05/2011 08:56

how old will he be when he starts? no EWO can get involved surely until he's of compulsory school age - which for a lot of kids will give you a term or more to sort something out.

i think that if you try various options out and go in looking for a solution then a term or so of getting to know everybody at the new school should really help. a lot of people who say they have no suggestions now while it's hypothetical may be more helpful once they meet you and get to know your DS and that you're not feckless and he's not disruptive.

if it were me i'd be prepared for him being late for the first part of reception but acknowledge that it's not sustainable and be asking everybody in the first few weeks for ideas.

Oakmaiden · 17/05/2011 09:07

I had terrible trouble trying to find childcare for my children around school hours.

When you phoned and spoke to the school did you ask about off site breakfast clubs, or whether the school have contacts with any childminders? My children's school were able to give me contacts for a couple of childminders, and those childminders gave me a couple more and so on... until I finally found someone with spaces....

The other alternative is to phone the LEA and ask them for help. Or consider asking your current childminder to put your child in a taxi to be delivered to school - most schools have access to CRB checked taxi drivers....

It is a real pain though, you have my sympathy.

Original poster

globalmouse · 17/05/2011 10:56

goblin - you are right, it is really interesting hearing other people's views. And just finding out how people have solved similar problems in the past too. And knowing others are in the same boat helps.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions :) You have given me loads of ideas, when this time yesterday I was in tears I couldn't see any solution.

My main problem, I guess, is that I live in a city. There are about 8 first schools within a couple of miles of my house. Some are totally oversubscribed, others I wouldn't get into because I would be too far away. He is going to the closest school to our house. He goes to a local preschool, but most of the children there will go to different schools, and anyway, I can't really ask a parent I don't know to have ds from 7.30 for 2 days a week can I?? I have lots of friends in the city, but a) they work and b) their kids all go to different schools.

The bottom line is that, partly due to all of this but also for other reasons, I am probably going to move. So, hopefully, I will only need a short term solution. But it still needs to work for the school, me and most importantly ds.

Unfortunately, from working in a school I do also know that we tend to see childcare as a parent's issue, and aren't always very helpful. Which is why I came to you lot :)

OP posts:

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