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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Maths - do they 'get it' all of a sudden??

34 replies

Boozilla · 04/05/2011 17:54

Just wondering? DS is in Year 1 and I'm finding maths a real struggle with him. He can do very basic sums but if given a more 'wordy' question he is utterly stumped and just immediately says "oh that's really tricky, I don't know". Any kind of multiplication also throws him completely. He can count in 2s and 5s but that's more memory than having any idea what he's actually doing.

He just seems to really struggle with quite basic concepts and if we work on something one day and then go back to it the next day it has completely gone from his mind.

I know lots of parents in this area have tutors (but very few admit to it) and it's a very competitive area. Does it all 'click' at some point like reading seems to or is maths a different animal altogether??

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lovecheese · 04/05/2011 18:02

Watching with interest. Sorry no advice for you, mrz will probably be along soon with pearls of wisdom.

Runoutofideas · 04/05/2011 18:03

I don't know boozilla, but I hope so. DD (also yr1) does not seem to be progressing very quickly - although we actually do very little with her at home. She can add as long as she can put a number in her head and add the rest on with her fingers, or she can count on with a number square or number line. She seems to find subtraction far harder. Can count in 2's 5's and 10's but if you say what is 50 take away 10 she has to count backwards in 1's rather than just changing the 5 to a 4, or using her counting in 10's, if you see what I mean.

Would be interested to hear what teachers have to say about whether it just clicks, or if we should be doing more at home with her....

SeenButNotHeard · 04/05/2011 18:09

Well, I am in awe as I have just spent the last 20 minutes trying to help dd (also yr 1) understand number bonds to 10.
She.
Can.
Not.
Get.
It.

I had to give up in the end as I could feel my frustration levels rising. Even really basic "you have 5, how many more do you need to add on to get to 10?" completely confused her. I feel like a really bad parent to not know her maths is so bad.

We got out 10 pennies and this was the only way that she could work out all the number bonds to 10.

I have no idea how to support her as it feels so very simple that she must have a real mental block. I would love to hear that it will 'click'.

lovecheese · 04/05/2011 18:11

Just to add, not really relevant but here goes anyway, I have 2 DD's, one who struggles with maths and one who picks things up easily - and the difference between them? The one who finds it easier enjoys the subject and has always loved playing games and doing jigsaws, so try to make maths as fun as possible - play snakes and ladders, ludo, uno, online games, count cars when you are out, anything that involves numbers without him realising he is doing "maths".

Elibean · 04/05/2011 18:28

dd1 now in Y2 and 'gets it' to the point of being in the top set for maths. A year ago, I would have eaten my hat if anyone had told me this was remotely possible!

So I would say yes - I think there may be a developmental 'switch' that clicks on, for maths, around the age of 7

Original poster

Boozilla · 04/05/2011 18:31

I know what you mean SeenButNotHeard. I also feel myself getting frustrated.

I was very bright at school and was top of the class at Primary and Secondary school (Discovered booze and boys at college but that's another story! ) so I find it hard to understand how it feels not to 'get' something so I know I'm probably not the best person to help him!

I'm desperately not wanting to put pressure on but I know he's falling well behind his peers (like I said, competitive area!!) and don't want him to feel like he's failing at something.

Just hoping it all makes sense at some point!

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Original poster

Boozilla · 04/05/2011 18:31

Elibean - yay!!

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mrsravelstein · 04/05/2011 18:33

ds1 is dyslexic and struggles with the 'wordy' problems too, but yes it did seem to just 'click' one day with him too, about 6 months ago (he's in year 5) he went from bottom stream to top stream in a week.

castlesintheair · 04/05/2011 18:34

My 9 year old 'clicked' somewhere around the age of 7 but that could be because we started doing Kumon and it has helped kick-start the mental arithmetic which they just didn't seem to be teaching at his school. He's in the top set now and doing stuff I struggle with (and I'm an ex-financial analyst) which is something I really could not have imagined when he was in Year 1.

My 7 year old is still extremely mediocre at maths but a lot of that is to do with her attitude - disinterested.

SeenButNotHeard · 04/05/2011 19:16

Does not help that I bed time I could not help myself - asked her again "if I have 5, how many do you need to add to make 10?" dd did not get it - 4 year old ds chipped in with the right answer straight away.

To be honest, I have wondered if there is something more serious wrong with her ability - she has been on medication for epilepsy since she was two and it is known to effect concentration and accedemic progress - had not noticed it so much in maths because I have been so worried about her literacy - another thread maybe, but she is really struggling.

Need to have a think about whether I really push for some additional help now, or leave it until Yr 2 and see how she goes.

Elibean · 04/05/2011 20:23

SeenBut, my dd was the same in Y1. Needed visual aids all the time, whether it was fingers or pennies or (her favourite) marbles. She does do it in her head now, most of the time - but the most important thing is, she's grasped what it all means. She's getting the abstract ideas - basic ones, but still heartening.

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Elibean · 04/05/2011 20:27

ps know what you mean about the figure-savvy 4 yr old. Mine is very quick with numbers, but I promise you - a year ago I was saying 'oh, dd1's thing is words, dd2's is numbers'. I would still say dd1's 'thing' is words, she's a natural storyteller - but she loves numeracy, and has no trouble grasping what she's taught at school.

If your dd is 'getting it' with visual aids, I would wait till Y2 before worrying unduly, tbh.

RoadArt · 04/05/2011 20:31

Some kids it does, some not. IME the ones who dont get it are those that are eventually found to have some learning difficulty.

I have worked with Y1 kids who really struggled, but now working with them in Y4/5 and they are doing extremely well. Others are still at the same stage they were back in Y1.

I would strongly recommend using materials and playing lots and lots of games using numbers.

At this stage, I wouldnt recommend computer tutors, physical products work much better and I would do this before considering paying a tutor.

I would also have a discussion with your DS teacher and ask her opinions of how he is performing in the class. What observations has she made. Ask her for advise on what to do with your DS.

You probably need to do the same numbers at home that your teacher is covering at school, and keep revising the same stuff so as not to cause any confusion.

And finally, dont get stressed because your DS will see that and it will make the situation worse.

FreudianSlipOnACrown · 04/05/2011 20:32

I'm not even vaguely an expert on this, but is there any chance any of your struggling DCs are kinaesthetic learners? That is, they learn best when they have physical ways to explore concepts? Maybe the change from play based learning in reception to more traditional schooling in year 1 has meant a massive reduction in the amount of physical learning opportunities.

Things like the pennies that were mentioned are good for this. You could also consider products like cuisenaire rods. Just use anything that helps make an abstract concept into something concrete if that makes sense?

RoadArt · 04/05/2011 20:38

One game I play is ten blocks of anything. THey count them. I move one to the left. They count them 1 + 9, tne 2+8 then 3+7 etc.
They see there are ten in total and it doesnt matter which side they blocks are on. I show them pairs of 5 and pairs of 2.
We do a lot of different games using the same method so that the message eventually gets across.
We count backwards and forwards, in ones or twos etc.
Eventually they cotton on that the total number is 10 - some quicker than others.
It can take lots and lots of practice, and patience, but you will get there in the end.

Eventually when this is understood you start introducing numbers that total greater than 10

SeenButNotHeard · 04/05/2011 20:38

Elibean thanks for your advice and positive experiences. The last thing I want to do is show dd that I am stressed about it iyswim - I just want her to enjoy school and reach her potential.

thebird · 04/05/2011 20:42

I know how you feel - its soooo frustrating when they cannot get things. My DD1 also struggled with maths in Y1. Mental maths just wasn't happening. She could recite number bonds but couldn't apply this to counting/ adding on with double digit numbers especially. Her teacher suggested pasta shapes to use as counters and a visual aid to work things out and this has helped. She has improved in Y2 but still needs a number square to be sure of herself.

Building self confidence is key, i've really had to back off because my frustration was just making maths an issue. Year 1 is such a jump from reception I'm sure your DD with catch up in her own time.

Bonsoir · 04/05/2011 20:44

I second what others have said - do lots and lots of number "games", whether that is snakes & ladders, rolling die, cards. And use the walk to school to read number plates, house numbers and play with those. Familiarity with numbers really helps - there was a big difference, IMO, in ability in maths between the children who were really familiar with numbers at the beginning of Y1 and the ones who barely recognised them.

BoattoBolivia · 04/05/2011 20:51

As a teacher, I echo Everything that roadart said. Keep it really practical, using penny's, shells, cars..anything really. Board games with two dice are great, as is junior monopoly (the simple,basic one which is all about number bonds to 10). My dd has taken ages to 'get' bonds and tables but is finally getting there at 9 years old! We kept going with the concrete apparatus at home a lot longer than I would have expected, but it is finally paying off.

clangermum · 04/05/2011 20:52

when dd was struggling with number bonds we used an abacus - somehow sliding the numbers across and seeing that the different 'lots' of numbers all added up to 10 on each row down helped it click.

clangermum · 04/05/2011 20:55

just realised I've basically said exactly what RoadArt said

SeenButNotHeard · 04/05/2011 20:56

Makes me feel so sad and guilty that I have not picked up on this earlier

Really wish I was not working all the hours God sends to keep the wolf from the door - then maybe we would have more time to work on stuff together. We spend very little time together during the week, she goes from school to childminder and by the time we get home it is bath and then bed.

Need to think of some number games we can play in the bath - maybe using 'sticky shapes' on the side of the bath?

RoadArt · 04/05/2011 20:57

Re the abacus. We were advised by a Maths Specialist that came to the school not to use the abacus because it can cause confusion when there are more beans on the board. Just to keep it simple and only let them play with however many the total is we want.

Cant remember the specifics of why we couldnt use it. Have to admit I did and some kids liked it, but I did see others found it very confusing , especially when we were working up to 20.

exexpat · 04/05/2011 21:00

Some of the Montessori style maths materials can really help if your DC isn't 'getting' the basic maths concepts verbally - they use blocks and beads and other physical objects to express the concepts, and it really seems to make it easy for children to understand.

This website gives an idea of the kind of thing they use - some things along these lines have been absorbed into standard primary classrooms, but not all teachers seem to use them much. Obviously it would be a bit too expensive for most people to kit themselves out with all that stuff, but there is a lot you can make at home.

BoattoBolivia · 04/05/2011 21:01

Arrrggghh! Just noticed my rogue apostrophe- bleeping autocorrect! Also took far too long to type!

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