LEA being spectacularly unhelpful with information regarding appeal and waiting lists. Are they obiliged to provide this information?

[theghostofposhlymanor]

I received my DDs allocation for primary school place last week and rang the council today to ask a few questions to see if there was any chance I could appeal for our 1st choice of school.

I asked them how far away they'd measured our house from the school, and what the furthest distance a child was allocated a place at the school. I also asked them where we would be on the waiting list for the school. They said they can't provide this information - we just have to appeal and see what happens.

I din't understnad how I can appeal if we don't have this information? There are 3 classes of 30 children admitted in reception so the only grounds for appeal would be if they measured our distance from the school incorrectly as far as I know.

I also don't know if there's any point sitting on the wiating list as I don't know if we are near the top or right at the bottom!

Are the council obilged to provide us with this information?

If you've only recently had the allocation then they wont know yet where you are on the waiting list as I think theres about 2 weeks for people to accept places. But they should tell you what date they will be able to tell you iyswim.

Hopefully the mn resident experts will see rhis and help more :)

They probably don't know yet as they don't know who has accepted places. Our letters came out on 26th April and we have to let them know if we are accepting the place offered by 10th May. Only after that will they have any idea of waiting list positions.

I would stick yourself down on the waiting list anyway as it sounds more likely that you would get in from a place becoming available rather than appealing. Appeals are rarely successful unless a mistake has been made. Do you feel you live close to being borderline? If so you may be high up the list.

They should be able to give you the distance information actually - in our area it is on the council website as to how far the furthest offered place was - it is listed under oversubscription criteria.

I've no idea if we are borderline as the LEA provide no information anywhere regarding furtherest offered place. Should they provide this?

I do know they measure the distance as shortest walking distance to the school. And we live about a mile away and there are 90 places in reception.

Thanks re: info about waiting list places. We have to accept places by the 10th May so this is why they can't tell me waiting list places - I didn't know this but seems obvious now!

Is there any information from previous years on the website? Could be under an online brochure produced for school admissions? Might give you more of an idea. Is it the school where children living near you generally attend or are there other schools closer?

I don't know what the LA "should" provide I'm afraid. Good luck with it!

No there's nothing on website or brochure we received about distances unfortunately.

I don't understand how you know if you have grounds for an appeal or not if they can't tell you this information. Can anyone else tell me if the LEA are obliged to provide this?

my friend didn't get her choice of school and when she rang the LEA (Lancs) asking for details they wouldnt tell her anything. 5 mins later she rang back as a worried parent for 2012 intake asking for general info after hearing rumours and got told the lot! Our letters went out 26th too and she was told it all the next day. Worth a try!

The LEA (or school, if it is its own admission authority) should meet all reasonable requests for information to help you prepare your appeal. Your requests certainly don't sound unreasonable (although it is true that the distance of the last place awarded may not be clear yet if people are still accepting/rejecting the offer of places).

Put your request in writing (eg email) and ask when they will provide the information that isn't instantly available. Also (as has been suggested) look at the LEA's website to see what comparable information they published last year - this is usually in the LEA's schools admissions booklet.

If you can't get the information, that doesn't stop you submitting the appeal. When you submit the appeal, you just need to give a broad outline of your case and say that you will develop it at the hearing. Of course, there is a risk that you will come unstuck then if (say) you have been measured correctly as living a mile away and the last place awarded was at half a mile but (frankly) this reflects worse on the LEA than it does on you, if they have failed to give you this basic information in good time.

i dont think that they can refuse telling you the general facts. Also i don't see the point of waiting for acceptances as you are initially not asking about appeals, you are trying to find out if you are measured right and how far off the last person in you are. Make sure you speak to your area team and not just the lea education office as the numbers are different.

On the other thread I've linked to the relevant paragraph of the appeals code.

Great, thanks for your help :)
I rang what I thought was the LEA back (it was the number given on my allocation letter) and found out that I wasn't actually speaking to the LEA, but a switchboard. And you can't actually speak to the LEA you have to email them (!). The person I spoke to on the switchboard has emailed someone from the LEA and asked them to call me back so I'll see what happens....

Thehost - whereabouts are you? I rang the admissions team the day I found out we hadn't got dd 1st choice. They told me the exact distance the last place was offered (0.461 in my case) I live just 0.01 further away when I said that they asked for my dd's name then told me she was number 1 on waiting list based on initial applications. They did explain that may change after appeals/acceptances/late entries but gives me a good indication that she stands a good chance. Try admissions rather than lea. I got the number from the bottom of the email that was sent with the decision

Good luck

Im appealing a grammar school place for ds and I've had this problem.

I was also advised by the resident MN appeal experts of the correct part of the admissions code, and I was told elsewhere that I could request the information I needed under the freedom of information act. Under the act, apparantly they have to respond either with an answer, or an explanation as to why they can't give me the information within 20 days.

I finally got what I asked for on 28th of April. They letter they sent was dated 13th April, and the postmark on the envelope said 27th. My email asking for the info was sent on the 7th April. Cheeky feckers don't like to make things easy for us! But I asked the school for what I needed directly, and not the LEA.

Good Luck with your appeal!

Whilst the admission office do have a horrendous workload immediately after the allocations come out, it is necessary for the LA to react to requests and obey the admission code. However I think you need to give them a reasonable amount of time to respond.
As far as appealing is concerned I would simply just state that you wish to appeal and that you will furnish full written details of the appeal as soon as possible. Then as the data becomes available you can make sensible decisions about whether to withdraw the appeal or to continue. That does not stop you from being on the waiting list for the school.

Blimey our admissions office fell over themselves to be helpful when I called them this morning (didn't get ANY of our three preferences), they told me where I was in the waiting list (position one on our favourite school) and the reasons why we were denied a place during first round admissions. They even clarified how the appeals and continued interest bit worked and offered to post me out the appeals form if I couldn't print them from the website (before I even said I would appeal).

OP it is a very worrying time for everyone, and I'm sorry you are having a hard time with the admissions unit, is it worth trying ringing again (at a different time) to see if you get someone more helpful? :)

In the interest of fairness, I should probably expand on my earlier post and say that the appeals clerks at the LEA have been lovely. Very helpful to talk to and happy to answer any questions. I am in a slightly different situation though in that my appeal is against the school, rather than the LEA.

Our admissions office (Cumbria) were fantastic too and appeals forms were actually sent with the allocated preferences. Our allocated preferences were sent out on 28th April (we were allocated our second preference) and I contacted them yesterday to enquire if they knew where we were on the waiting list for our first preference. The lady was fantastic and told me that the allocated places did go all the way to category 8 (non sibling, non catchment area) and that the furthest allocated offer was 0.7mile away and, according to the GPS software they use, we are 0.9mile away and that, at present, we are 8th on the waiting list. I doubt that 8 people will reject the school and we are not appealing (applied under category 8 and the school is a 60 intake, so subject to the infant class size limit regulation), so we have accepted our second preference and will remain on the waiting list for our first preference until the end of the autumn term 2011 (we can extend this obviously).

OP - I know they are waiting to see who accepts the offers and, therefore will not have completely accurate waiting lists, but I am sure they should be able to tell you roughly where you are on the waiting list at present, which category the allocated offers went to (may not have got as far as the category you were considered under) and the distance of the furthest allocated offer. I appreciate they are busy, but from the conversation I had with the admissions office yesterday, they really couldn't do enough to help and were happy to answer all my queries.

I just rang our admission office to find out what distance they measured us. The man I spoke to was really helpful. The letter we were sent told us that the last place offered was 0.642 miles- apparently we are 0.647 miles. He went on to say (without my asking) that as it stands ATM we are second on the list. Obviously that can change because the acceptances are due in by 10 May. He also talked me how to fill the form in because I wasn't convinced I was reading it properly.

I managed to speak to someone today :)

Apparently they have measured us as living 1.3 miles from the school (quickest walking distance) but as suspected I think they have overlooked a small footpath and it should be 1.2 miles. They said someone else in my area had queried about the small footpath.

They still can't tell me the furthest offered place though, they're not sure they can give me this information (?) and are going to ring back tomorrow.

So I have no idea if the 0.1 miles will make any difference. Does anyone know if this distance is likely to affect our chances in any way? Apparently we are number 24 on the waiting list, so I'm not sure that it will :(

Well, I guess it depends if no. 25 and above would also benefit from the footpath and might end up leapfrogging you in the queue.
But our LEA - and a fair few others, I expect - will only count footpaths if they are tarmacked (sp?) and have streetlights.

The footpath is paved land has street lights. It is actually a very short footpath between the end of 2 cul-de-sacs which allows to to take a short cut through. But obviously you can't drive through as it's a cul-de-sac, so on google maps it looks like a dead end.

Our LEA will only count a footpath that is on public land, is surfaced and lit.

Are you in a rural area? It would be rare in a town to get a primary place at 1.2 or 1.3 miles, I think.

paved and has street lights, whoops.

No one would leapfrog us as we are very close to the footpath at the end of the cul-de-sac. There are only a few houses closer than us and none of them have a 4 year old.

No not rural, but the school is big and accepts 90 children in reception. As the crow flies we are 0.8 miles away, and is our 3rd nearest school, but our LEA measure by shortest walking route.

Worth a shot, then. Good luck.

They are obliged to give this info under Freedom of Information act.
Put your request in a letter and cite the act.You'll get the info pdq.