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Primary education

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Original poster

School catchment cheating

20 replies

SunflowerMummy · 01/05/2011 00:08

I'm nervously waiting to find out which school my son has been allocated to (we find out on Tuesday in our area), and there is a good chance that it might not be our first choice. Our catchment area school is 4 miles away, and we've applied for the school ds currently attends for pre-school (which is less than 2 miles away, but is oversubscribed).

Before we applied, we had several people suggesting that we should consider renting a house near to the school in order to get a place. I could never have done that, as it would feel so dishonest. I've since found out, however that at least 3 people (that I know about) have done just that - and are not even living in the properties.

Do you think I would have grounds for appeal if ds doesn't get a place on the basis that people have falsified addressed, and therefore if they had applied fairly then we would have a place instead of them (as we live closer)?

Not really sure what to do - I just feel so frustrated. It makes me feel that you need to cheat to be on a level playing field!

OP posts:

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blackeyedsusan · 01/05/2011 00:35

i would be tempted to write to the council tipping them off, if you are sure. not sure what good it will do you though.

sunnyday123 · 01/05/2011 07:21

if they are not living in them then they are cheating the system - although i would not go as far as to tell on them - unless you can guarantee that you would have got in ahead if they had put their real address. If it is oversubscribed, there may be lots of people ahead of you and so it would make no real difference - except morally of course but i'd stay out of it in that case.

If they are living in them then although its not nice, it is legal because people are allowed to rent out their own and then rent in the catchment as it would be hard to prove reasons why. I have known people who do this and whilst not pleasant, they are legally putting their correct address down. In our LEA home address means where you reside in the mon-fri week - i.e. there's no difference between owned and rented property.

mummytime · 01/05/2011 07:59

If they are not living in the properties then I would be very tempted to tip off the LEA, even though I have no children moving schools this year. However lots of people do the one year move thing, and although that seems like cheating there is nothing against the rules in it.

I have know someone seem to do the same thing, but it was a genuine mistake. They bought a new house, and move to a village. In less than a year they moved back to their original house. How do I know it was genuine? First everyone thought the move was mad as it was less convenient for work and schools. Second their kids were at private schools so catchment didn't matter. But it can happen.

Original poster

SunflowerMummy · 01/05/2011 08:54

I feel really frustrated as this is our local village school, and we are active members of the community, and ds is really settled at the school. The properties in question are stood empty, just used as an address for the purposes of the school application. One of them is a one bedroom flat - I'm sure they don't ever intend to move the whole family into there!

I don't think that there will be loads of people ahead of us in the queue, but we might miss out by one or two places. Even though we live a couple of miles away, it is still our nearest school (even though it's not our catchment school).

Just don't know how I would tell ds he will be moving schools, and not staying with his friends (but that't another issue)!

OP posts:

coccyx · 01/05/2011 10:15

LEA will be interested if family not even living in rented property. Fraud

sunnyday123 · 01/05/2011 10:16

i see your frustration but even if they are not living in the property - it will be difficult to prove as i'm sure they will just say they are. All they have to say it that they are trying to sell the old one or that they have to return to the other one from time to time to check post, security etc. They could also say they only rent a small property because they haven't released funds from their old one etc. There are lots of things that they could give as excuses and it would be very difficult for someone to say conclusively that they don't live there, effectively one word against anothers i'm afraid! Plus if they are siblings who wouldn't have got in otherwise, i doubt the school would be interested - For example, in my area, schools turn a blind eye to siblings doing this because they feel frustrated by the admissions policies that sometimes put siblings next.

I would ring the LEA and find out how far off getting a place you were and go from there. If you would have got in then i'd consider complaining but honestly don't think you'd get anywhere. For them to withdraw an offer they would have to have definite proof of fraud and as their name is on rent deeds etc (not like giving someone else address) then its so hard to prove.

meditrina · 01/05/2011 10:22

Yes, you should ring the LEA to tip them off. They will investigate, and places offered on the basis of a fraud may be rescinded. They will then be offered to those next on the waiting list (which may or may not be you).

But (ready to be corrected if wrong) you cannot appeal for a place on the grounds of unproven fraud allegations.

prh47bridge · 01/05/2011 12:48

Agree with others. If you have evidence of people cheating by renting homes and not living in them you should report it to the LA. Any offers that have been made to these people can be withdrawn. Indeed, the places can be taken away from their children even after they have started school. They do not have to have definite proof of fraud to withdraw an offer. The standards applied to criminal prosecutions don't apply here. The LA can decide on the balance of probability.

I agree with meditrina that you won't win an appeal on the basis of unproven allegations of fraud.

thetideishigh · 01/05/2011 14:21

I'm confused by your OP.

You say that your catchment school is 4 miles away but that there is a school only 2 miles away that you'd like your ds to attend. How is it that this school, much closr, is not your catchment school ?

Around where we live there is no such thing as catchment. Local schools use distance to determine eligibility after giving priority to looked after children, special needs, sibling (if applicable, varies school to school). Seems suitably green as in general it prevents unecessary mileage for parents dropping off and picking up. It also stops schools manipulating their intake by altering catchment areas from time to time to take in certain postcodes but not others.

thetideishigh · 01/05/2011 14:26

I feel your anxiety as we are 3rd on the waiting list for preferred school, places allocate 2 weeks ago, and I now know that 1 child of seperated parents has got in using the dad's address which is close by even though kids live during the week with mum who lives much further away than us.

Another child with a place will leave after 3 years to follow big brother to prep school, saves money on school fees, naturally, to use state infants which is clearly good enough for a few years.

bibbitybobbityhat · 01/05/2011 14:33

If you are absolutely sure that the families concerned are not living in these rented properties then of course you should alert the LA.

They will investigate - if you are wrong then no harm will be done.

MollieO · 01/05/2011 14:44

Thetide I wonder if the OP's closest school is in a neighbouring borough or next county. Our closest secondary school is in the neighbouring county.

lovecheese · 01/05/2011 15:22

If you can prove your allegations, OP, then tell the LA, it is absolutely not on and makes a mockery of the whole application process. Go on...

edam · 01/05/2011 15:26

I'm not usually in favour of telling tales, but would be quite happy to report such blatant fraud.

Original poster

SunflowerMummy · 01/05/2011 15:35

thetideshigh,

We live on the edge of a fairly rural area, although near to a village. In our area, schools do have a 'normal area served by the school', in other words a catchment area. We fall into the normal area of a rural school. Even though there are currently only 20 children enrolled at the school (between the ages of 4 and 11), it covers a wide area of about 5 miles radius around the school. The school can take up to 45 children, and so is only currently half full. I think they are desperate to get people to attend, so broaden the catchment area.

Seems madness to me as well - I'd much prefer it to work on the basis of nearest school.

Thanks for all your posts, I think I'll wait for Tuesday to find out the outcome of the admissions process, then maybe ring the LEA.

OP posts:

PegPolkadot · 01/05/2011 15:36

Phone and report them. The council are probably used to it- they have had to investigate twice at DS's school that I am aware of.

We live in catchment and on being offered a place had to provide two utility bills as proof we actually lived at the property.

GiddyPickle · 01/05/2011 17:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SE13Mummy · 01/05/2011 19:59

If you are certain that you can name the families who appear to have submitted fraudulent applications then please do report them to the LA but please decide whether or not to report them prior to receiving your child's school offer rather than only reporting them if you miss out.... two years ago my DD missed out on a Reception place 800m from our home where she attended nursery and where I teach. She missed out due to fraudulent behaviour by a parent elsewhere in the borough. Fast forward a term and three children ended up changing schools as a direct result of this fraud. That's 87 other children whose Reception experience was disrupted by the departure/arrival of a friend.

If you believe someone is acting fraudulently then the responsible thing to do is to act upon that belief. It may not directly benefit you but the knock-on effect of such fraud may well affect your child at some point and it would be awful to feel that there was something you could have done.

admission · 01/05/2011 20:28

No admission appeal panel can take such issues into consideration, so the correct process is to report them to the LA and hopefully they will loose their places and get an appropriate amount of negative publicity for such cheating.
One of the local schools to me is always over subscribed and I can tell you the addresses of the 4 or 5 houses / flats that always seem to be changing hands for rent that are near the school. Not unsurprisingly so do the school and the LA! But stupidly over the last four or five years parents have used these known addresses fraudently every year to try and get a child into the school.
So I would say to you that you should report in writing the addresses that are being used to your knowledge but not be surprised if the LA already knows about them.

tinytalker · 01/05/2011 22:04

These fraudsters need reporting. If they get away with it then there will double the number who will try it next year.
Last year our outer London Borough actually took a woman to court for lying on the primary school application and getting a school place fraudulently. It was in all the national papers and on the news, she was well and truly named and shamed!! The council wanted to make an example of her to deter others. I bet no tried it this year!!!

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