Do Headteachers/teaching staff have any influence over school admissions?

[mummissinghermind]

Sorry if this has been asked before, my dd is 3, and i;ve just started looking into schools, info on here has been invaluable (thanks everyone).
Am i right in thinking you apply to your local LEA and they allocate and decide a school place based on certain criteria, which may differ from region to region?

My daughter attends a private nursery, i've put her name down at a local schools nursery to start on sept, now i'm thinking should i put her through an upheaval, if attending a nursery will not actually influence her getting a reception place the following year?

What would you do? Is school admission such a lottery, sorry im a bit of an oldie mum,42, it was so different when i was at school. Is it designed to send us to the vodka and valium stash?

Attending the nursery won't affect the chances of getting a reception place.

In practice, many children in a school's nursery will move on to the school, but that is because the admissions criteria are similar/identical, so they are likely to be fit well (sibling/distance), but there is always the possibility there will be enough children who meet the criteria better (siblings or local children who fit whatever reason went to nursery elsewhere).

Thankyou meditrina, its all so different, im completely at a loss what to do, i should hear about her nursery place may 6th, do you know if schools apply the same criteria as LEA when allocating nursery places? For instance this nursery has 39 places, but reception class will have 30 places.

Do you think most people would put their child into a nursery hoping to get a reception place?.... Its a lovely school, in the middle of b,ham but a real village feel, i don't want to get to hung up on thinking about one school, when she may not get any of the choices i put down.It all seem so deliberately cruel
although i couldn't come up with an alternative. Thanks for your reply

You need to check what the admissions criteria for that school are. Generally, attending a nursery "attached" to the school will not give you any priority for admissions but you really must read the criteria to see what others factors count at that particular school, or any others that you are interested in. Faith schools will generally require proof of faith, church attendance etc. Very popular schools will generally draw from a very small area, it would be worth finding out the furthest distance from which this school had offered a place for the past number of years. If distance is a factor and you are way outside it, it is unlikely that you will get a place next year.

You need to get onto your local LEA (or look at their website) and see what the admissions criteria are for the school you are interested in. Every school is different. You will only be able to see last year's, but that should give you a good idea. You should also be able to see information about how over/under-subscribed each school was last year, which is a good guide as to whether you'll get a place.

Church schools tend to choose their own admissions criteria which may differ from the standard LEA ones, as it's the board of governors (which includes the head) who choose them. Some schools have "feeder" pre-schools, so if you attend the pre-school you have a higher admission priority, but many don't, so it makes no difference.

Thankyou all so much, i think i've been half asleep, its all come round so quickly. Just thought it was case of putting her name down at a few schools.

Honestly theres a whole other world going, i didn't realise until i had dd.

Cointreauversial have looked at bham LEA website, no specific info, do you think its worth my while to call them, are they obligated to give such information?

annh it is a faith school, [Jewish], however the vast number of kids are not Jewish, but from all faiths, Muslim, Christian, Sikh, and non-dom, so that may work against a place as we are not Jewish, and no siblings. i will look into the catchment distances.Thankyou

Look at the school website under admissions - that should tell you. Also, remember you will not just be competing with the children in the nursery for a place but other children too and that LAs have to review their admission code so things are not set in stone (this can impact on rules regarding religious practice for example). Definitely start looking around at some other primaries now so you can make an informed decision. If you put your postcode into the Ofsted site it will tell you all the local schools and you can read their Ofsted reports. Good luck.

Have found admission arrangements for the school you're talking about here but you need to scroll down a bit.

Not sure if that link works properly .

Looking at it it appears it would make a difference to getting a place if your DD went to the nursery as that would place her in category F rather than H. As it is a voluntary aided school it is able to apply different criteria from community or voluntary controlled schools.

If you go to here and go to the second link (ie one after the e briefings link) it will show you the page I got the information from. Basically it is Jewish then non Jewish with sibling priority and having gone to the nursery gives you priority.

There is a thread on the TES site at the moment started by a teacher who's daughter hasn't got a place in the school where she works and where her daughter goes to nursery ...

Suppose it depends where they live. I didnt get a place at the school where my dad taught. Did get in after a year though.

How far are you from the school?
There are children who travel a fair distance, but they are of Jewish faith, so have priority.
It is a lovely school though, you're right.

Birmingham LEA will send out school application form end of Sept/October 2011 which you can do online or post back.

www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite/primaryschool?packedargs=website%3D1&rendermode=live#sessions

Go to the bottom of the above link (sorry don't know how to shorten link) and there is a PDF with all the schools in B'ham & details of what the cut of distance has been for the last 3 years.

I have a 3 year old too and will be applying for her this year, thankfully I have a son in reception so will have the sibling card this time around. Is it the Jewish nursery school in M you have appied too?

Oh thankyou you all so much, i am trying to be realistic here, and to be honest since reading about waiting lists, i would be loathe to put her name down, her get on the waiting list, ahead perhaps of a child who has stronger links. You've all been so helpful,thankyou so much.

Just to correct the advice you have been given, whilst attending the nursery generally doesn't give priority for admission to Reception there are a few schools where it does. King David School in Birmingham, for example, does give priority to children attending the nursery. As an aside, someone should refer this school to the Schools Adjudicator as they give priority to children with a sibling who has attended the school in the past. This is a direct breach of the Admissions Code paragraph 2.16(h) which specifically bans this practise.

As this is a faith school they have some involvement in the admissions process. They set their own admission criteria. They will receive a list of applicants from the LA and will then have to rank them in order. However, they must do this in accordance with their admission criteria so no amount of buttering up the head teacher should help you get in.

The admission criteria for all primary schools in Birmingham are on the council website here. I have to say they don't make it obvious when navigating their website!

onebigyawn yes that the one, i went to an open evening last november, and was just bowled over by the staff and children.I was escorted by two great year 6 children, who took great care to explain the hebrew alphabet to me, just so happy and articulate.Really got a lovely vibe.

Hello OP - just to add to prh47's excellent advice as always - you can't 'be ahead' of another child on the waiting list. Waiting list places are given out in same accordance as the original places so in catchment with a sibling, will always come ahead of in catchment no sibling etc.

I am a HT - and no I don't have any influence over admissins except in the case of statemented children where I can say whether or not I think I can meet their needs, though my views can only be 'taken into account'.

Thankyou christinecagney had no idea about the waiting lists, as i'd seen other posters say " im 3rd on list" or whatever, it all seems so complicated.

I think i may of frightened myself talking to other mums whose dc are same age as mine, they all seem so clued up although very stressed about it all.

Just as well admissions criteria doesn't have a 'parental intelligence' bracket, or dd wouldn't get a place anywhere.

Many thanks again, just got dd to bed so im off out with my measuring tape to check on catchment distance.

My DD was in the preschool for a school and was told in no uncertain terms she would not get in by the preschool staff. Yet the headteacher said 'yes it'll be fine'. A lot of heads will say they have influence when you do the tour - which they don't and it's bloody irritating that they would just lie to you like that.

But bear in mind catchment areas can change as can admissions criteria. Due to the cutbacks, round here some schools are being forced to take in an extra 10% for which some areas have priority as smaller schools are being closed. So even if you play several years ahead you can be hit with a curveball like a change of priorities just a few months ahead of the offer date. :(

You will get offered somewhere btw. And it's not really worth worrying about it - because the majority of people do get what they want, even if only on appeal and continued interest. I have yet to meet a parent who six months into reception says 'well of course I'll be bitter for the rest of my life that little Tabitha didn't get into St Johns and is in this shit heap'

Thankyou whomovedmychocolate thats calmed me down a bit, now where did i put the vodka.
I suppose like most things to do with being a parent its so easy to get your knickers in a twist.

Thankyou to you all for being the 'voice of reason'.