Sorry, more appeal advice please...

[frostymomma]

My DD currently attends the nursery of the school that we would like her to go to ? this was our first choice, which we didn?t get offered. We are on the waiting list (exact place tbc, but I think about 8th based on the stats we received with the letter). We are just outside of catchment (by one road) even though we are only 0.6 miles away from the school. The PAN is 22.

We are planning to appeal and I would love to get some advice as to how strong any of you think our case is. We plan to say, firstly, that the PAN seems unreasonable. The way I understand it is that the PAN was decided a few years ago when the nursery class (of 8 children) was housed in a tiny conservatory on the side of the school and, at the time, the reception class and nursery children were taught together. Now, a separate classroom has been purpose-built for the nursery children, who are taught primarily by a nursery nurse but with some teacher input, and although they still only take 8 children in the morning and 8 in the afternoon, on Mondays they come together for the full day, so that there are 16 in nursery plus 22 in reception. Therefore there seems to be no reason why the reception class size can?t be increased permanently ? is this right? Am I missing anything else?

Secondly, when we attended an open day at the school, we were lead to believe by a couple of teachers that children who attend the nursery tend to get into the school on appeal, even though attendance at nursery doesn?t guarantee a place. We therefore decided, based on this advice, to send DD to this nursery rather than any other. ? I?m worried about getting any teachers in trouble with this line of argument, what do you think?

Thirdly, my DD is a late August baby, so is the youngest in her class. She struggled to settle and is emotionally not so well developed as the other children, many of whom are nearly a full year older. I am worried that moving her would be detrimental to her development after she has spent time making friendships, etc. ? I know this is probably a weak argument but wondered if it was worth throwing in, in addition to the other points.

Any help would be gratefully received. Thanks in advance.

I think you need to have an idea how they organise the classes above reception. Do they have classes of 30 and mix the years up to some extent? If this is the case then taking more than 22 in reception may affect their ability to carry out the arrangements they have further up the school and they may have a good case to argue about why the PAN is still set at 22. Classroom size might just come into it as well.

I would agree that points 2 and 3 are not particularly strong. I doubt you will get anyone into trouble if you bring point 2 up but I also doubt it will carry any weight with the panel. As GiddyPickle says, unless you can come up with independent medical evidence to back up point 3 it won't carry any weight with the panel either.

That leaves us with the question of whether the PAN is correct. Just to clarify the process a little, the school has a calculated capacity which gives two figures - upper and lower limits. The lower limit is 90% of the upper figure. The official capacity is then set somewhere in that range. The admission number is usually the capacity divided by the number of years in the school, although it can be set higher or lower than that.

It would be worth asking the LA when the capacity for this school was set and confirming the date when the nursery classroom was built. If the capacity has not been updated to reflect the new situation that is certainly worth bringing up as it suggests the school may be able to handle more children. However, as others have said, if they have small classrooms the PAN of 22 may be correct.

The main problem you have with suggesting PAN is wrong is that, although it weakens the case that admitting your daughter will cause problems for the school, it doesn't give the panel a positive reason for admitting her. If you can convince the panel that the school can cope with all the children appealing for places they should admit them all. However, if you can't persuade them of that they have to decide whether your case to admit is strong enough to overcome any prejudice to the school and may have to decide whether your case is stronger than that of other parents who are appealing. It would therefore help if you can point to some positive reasons your daughter needs to attend this school. Look for anything offered by this school which would be of particular benefit to your daughter but which is not present in the offered school.

Thank you so much everyone for your comments. I always thought that my second two points were weaker than the first, but I think when you are desperate to get the best for your child, you clutch at any straw that might be available.

You've given me some great points to clarify with the LEA/school re class size further up the school, etc. I now just have to think about what this school offers that would benefit my daughter in particular - it has so much, it'll be tricky to pick out the most relevant. I've no idea what a panel would see as a good reason. Would it be things like facilities/equipment (IT, sporting), activities she likes doing (music, dance) and teaching style that suits my DD or would it be softer things like friends she's made?

Also, does anyone know what the format of the appeal meeting will be - I've heard some horror stories and it's worrying me! Do we just say our piece and then they say theirs or do they try to disprove everything we're saying?

Facilities, equipment and activities are the things to go for. Friends won't get you anywhere unless you have expert evidence that your daughter needs a stable friendship group. Friendships are pretty fluid at this age so an appeal panel would take some persuading that this is sufficient reason to admit.

At the hearing you will enter the room at the same time as the authority's representative. The chair of the panel will introduce everyone and explain the process. The authority will then present the case to refuse admission following which you and the panel can ask questions. After this you present your case. You may get asked the odd question while you do so but most questions will be asked when you have finished. The panel and the authority will ask questions to make sure they understand your case and see how strong it is. After this the authority will sum up their case and you will sum up yours. That is the end of the hearing so you and the authority will leave. You will find out the panel's decision a few days later.

If other parents are appealing for the same school it is likely that you will all be together for the first part of the hearing, until everyone has heard the authority's case and had a chance to ask questions. If that happens you must bring up your questions about PAN at this point. You certainly won't gain any advantage by leaving it until you are on your own and may find that you won't be allowed to bring it up at all.

You should not face aggressive questioning. The other participants should be aware that this could be stressful for you and should take account of that in their approach.