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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

what is the point of me appealing in my situation?!

31 replies

easycomeeasygo · 21/04/2011 00:39

I didnt get my DS2 into my first and only preference of school, yes..stupid of me I know. I have had the letter now stating that I can appeal, so I will try, but the thing is, my DS1 goes to a different school and I was adamant I didnt want DS2 going to the same as his brother so I didnt put it on the form as I knew we'd probably get allocated that one instead of 1st preference, but now I regret it! So I phoned the LEA and was told i should have put it on the form etc etc etc and that I should put it in writing to be considered for the school where his brother goes...ok...but this morning I get a letter saying that my application for the school I didnt put on my form..was unsuccessful! Also it states my son will not go on the waiting list, and all places at the school have already been allocated! So whats the point of me appealing? Sorry if it all sounds a bit mixed up...I will appeal, I have to really, I know its my own fault, i'm just mentally exhausted by the whole thing, didn't think it would be this hard.

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Original poster

easycomeeasygo · 21/04/2011 00:42

I must add...that after receiving this letter today I phoned the LEA and I was told that this was treated as a late application. (so it must have had something to do with the first call i made last week.

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Guitargirl · 21/04/2011 00:46

OK, I am not an expert so hopefully someone else will be able to advise but I thought you could go on the waiting list for any school within the borough if you request it? I can understand how the places could all already be allocated to those parents who had expressed that school as a preference but I can't understand why you are not able to be placed on a waiting list. That can't be right, surely?

Original poster

easycomeeasygo · 21/04/2011 00:53

Hi Guitargirl and thanks for your reply :) I've just looked on the letter and it reads 'as there has not been a significant change in your circumstances I cannot place ?????? name on a waiting list for (school) I will have to look into it further i think.

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Guitargirl · 21/04/2011 01:00

Am sure that's not right, hopefully someone wise will be along in the morning with advice!

southofthethames · 21/04/2011 01:01

Now that is even stranger - how can they not let someone go on a waiting list? Isn't this against the rules? I thought the only circumstances one needed was not to get the first choice.

Original poster

easycomeeasygo · 21/04/2011 01:04

can you go on more than one waiting list I wonder? because my DS2 is already on the waiting list for our 1st preference.

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Guitargirl · 21/04/2011 01:05

I think you can go on as many you want.

southofthethames · 21/04/2011 01:06

Well Surrey let us go on three, and they say we can chop and change which 3, eg if your position on 1st choice is 100, you can change your first choice to another school (although granted I haven't tried that to see if I'll get a no like you did). In fact, it is said that the rules are that you can go on as many waiting lists as you like.

Original poster

easycomeeasygo · 21/04/2011 01:10

oooh right ok, thanks ladies :) This is Wolverhampton so who knows.

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ButterpieandCheese · 21/04/2011 01:12

We are on 4 waiting lists in sunderland. No places at any, like.

They aren't even amazing schools, I suspect there are more 4 year olds than expected or something.

Original poster

easycomeeasygo · 21/04/2011 01:25

yes butterpieandcheese I did read that there had been a baby boom in 2006.

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southofthethames · 21/04/2011 01:41

In Surrey, there are schools - just the usual moans about not getting the one you want because you are 6 houses too far or something, or maybe being assigned one that has a long commute.

kitkat1000 · 21/04/2011 08:56

if you read some of the other appeal threads, you will see some experts on this subject who say you can go on as many waiting lists as you want - maybe look at some of those as they seem to know what they are talking about. Good luck

GiddyPickle · 21/04/2011 10:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

admission · 21/04/2011 15:57

I agree with giddypickle, there is good reason to sort this out.
If you only applied for the one school and did not get a place, that is fair enough. You however should appeal for this school on the basis that it is the school that you want. OK it is a very poor reason for admission in terms of the panel but it does allow you to establish exactly why you did not get offered a place and whether a mistake might have been made. It is an outside chance but one that you should take. You also should ask to be on the waiting list as this is a more probable route to success for this school.

As far as the second school you applied for, yes it would be treated as a late application and as such you would only be considered after all other on time applications. However having been rejected for a place at the school you have a legal right to go on the waiting list for the school and for you to appeal for the school. Do not accept what the LA say, they are simply wrong.

I would go back to the LA in writing (email is fine) and say you want to go on the waiting list for the school and also appeal. See what happens when you put it in writing. Absolutely keep hold of the letter sent to you as this is absolute evidence for later that the LA have done something illegal. It will not get you a place at appeal but it will certainly create a few red faces at the LA. You need to create a paper trail because this will all come down to dates. You should now be on the waiting list for the second school and with a sibling in the school, high up on the waiting list at the school. Any places that become available will be filled from the waiting and could concievably be open to you. If you go to appeal and there has been movement on the waiting list and you should have been given a place then this is maladministration by the LA and the panel will then give you the place at appeal.

Panelmember · 21/04/2011 17:41

The point of appealing, in your situation, is that you are being given very poor and misleading advice by the LEA. You are entitled to join the waiting lists for both schools (and any others which you would accept) and to appeal for any and all of them. As Admission says, you should be high on the waiting list for your older child's school, because of the sibling status.

If the admission number is 30/60/90/120, this will be an infant class size appeal, which you should win only if there has been a mistake which has deprived your child of a place. If, by the time of the appeal hearing, the LEA has filled any last-minute places that should have gone to your child with another child from the waiting list, that will be evidence of a mistake.

Obviously, though, you can't wait for the appeal panel to sort this out. You need to insist that your child is placed on all relevant waiting lists now.

I know that you know this now, but for other people reading this thread I would say that naming only one school on your application form is seldom (if ever) a good idea. You don't get any additional priority because it's your only choice and, if you don't get a place there, you will be offered a place at the nearest school with a vacancy, which may be one which you would never have selected if you had made the usual 3/4/5/6 choices.

Original poster

easycomeeasygo · 21/04/2011 18:05

Totally agree there!! I cant stress that enough either, thankfully as he is my fourth and last, I won't have to go through this again :o

Well I woke up in panic this morning...I had 2 appeals that had to be in by wednesday next week and rememebered from tomorrow until then is bank holiday!! So first and foremost this morning thats what I got on with and handed them in myself. So i've had quite a busy day so therefore I haven't had the time to come on here and see all this great advice. But saying that, me and DH have opted to be at the hearings so I will take notes from what you have all said and definitely demand to go on that waiting list. Well whats done is done now, we've just got to play the waiting game. Thank you all so much, its much appreciated.

Can I just add this that was on my letter in regards to the waiting list:

"Unless material changes of circumstances have been demonstrated a child's name will only be included on those lists for school that were ranked higher on the common application form than the school allocated the child. Therefore, a child who has been allocated a place at the first preferred school cannot go on the waiting list of the lower preferred school (eg if your child has been allocated preference 1, you cannot ask for their name to be placed on any other waiting list for any other school).

Any request to be placed on a waiting list for a lower preference school must be submitted in writing along with the evidence of changes of circumstances which have led to your change of preference."

So is this illegal then??

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StealthyKissBeartrayal · 21/04/2011 18:11

Sounds like there has been a mix up - your DS didn't get into his first choice school! Worth querying on Tuesday?

CarGirl · 21/04/2011 18:12

On your application form did you have to list that your older ds was at his current school?

Original poster

easycomeeasygo · 21/04/2011 18:38

Thats the mistake I made Cargirl, I only put down 1 school, and that 1 school wasn't the school my older son goes to. We are on the waiting list for our first preference. I phoned the LEA last week to mention about the school my other son was in and a couple of days later she sent me the letter saying we was unsucessful in applying for a place there (even though I didnt apply) and couldnt go on that waiting list. Im sorry If i've confused you.

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GiddyPickle · 21/04/2011 18:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CarGirl · 21/04/2011 18:43

I just meant whether the form asked for any sibling at any other school or just if you'd applied for it.

Whether you listed it as a preference or not if the school was noted as a sibling's school then it should have affected whether you were given it or not IYSWIM

It does sound like the LEA has made a mistake. If you have not got your first preference school you can go on the waiting list of as many as you like (well apart from in Surrey where they are insisting it's only 3!)

Original poster

easycomeeasygo · 21/04/2011 19:07

I think they are saying I can not go on the waiting list because there has not been a change in circumstances i.e moving house.

CarGirl...when i filled out my original form it only asked for siblings at the school that i was applying for, so I really shot myself in the foot for not putting the other school down. They only knew about my other son in the other school afterwards because I phoned the LEA to see if anything could be done about applying for that school, I was told to put it in writing, and then a couple of days later I had the letter saying we was unsuccessful in getting a place at my other DS school.

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admission · 21/04/2011 19:48

easycomeeasygo,
I know I should not laugh but that quote really is a joke.
It is so totally wrong that I just wonder what somebody was on when they wrote it. They clearly have no idea or a very pecular idea of what the admission code says, the decisions come to by the Local Government Ombudsman, the School Adjudictor and the High Court.
Please tell which LA are we tlaking about here?

Original poster

easycomeeasygo · 21/04/2011 19:54

Admission,

It's Wolverhamton LA, it's terrible then in that case, because someone like little old me takes all this information as gospel. We are supposed to trust what these people are telling us.

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