Native language as Exceptional Medical or Social Circumstances in school admission - any ideas?

[Phenikz]

We are French speaking Swiss Family. All primary schools in our area but one offer French as part of their curriculum. We applied to our local catchment school under the admission rule about "Exceptional medical or social circumstances". Our reason (exceptional social circumstance) is that our son needs to access French as part of the curriculum. In this way he will maintain his native language and we will preserve our linguistic cohesion as a family. If he does not experience French at school, he will be embarrassed and reluctant to speak it at home and will eventually loose it. This was happening to our elder daughter until we moved her into a school that does offer French. Then we will have to speak English, a foreign language, to communicate within the family. We do speak English as well, don't get me wrong :), but we would like to preserve our cultural heritage.

For sad reasons we were allocated a place at the only local school that does not offer French, even though we are not in its catchment area. The curriculum there is deliberately restricted (even "Topics" were abandoned) because it is failing (in special measures), so they are not likely to teach French in the foreseeable future.

We are going to appeal. The LA did not consider us under this rule maybe because it is not medical or social services related. But some LAs, Devon notably, do interpret it broadly and include compelling educational reasons.

Could anyone advise what the law about exceptional reasons is? Any other laws or regulations that could help us?

Any experience?

Thanks

I think people are trying to offer help and support by telling you "Do not rely on this as the basis of an appeal, you will not win"

Seriously, the sum total of my DCs 7 years of primary French lessons has been to learn and forget to count to ten, the colours, the body parts and a few songs - they do french for one half term a year - an appeal panel will not believe that this forms a compelling case for your son to attend the school to "maintain his native language and we will preserve our linguistic cohesion as a family."

we have already offered suggestions, op.

don't appeal on the grounds of french.

continuing to use this as an avenue to get your child into a better school won't miraculously produce any other advice.

it isn't possible.

specialist teacher? in every school? for french? in our last outstanding primary, the 'specialist teacher' was just one of the yr r teachers. and they cancelled french after a term because parents were complaining that she was out of the classroom teaching other yr groups so often. butyeeeees, in theory, she wa the 'specialist' teacher and 'tuition' was present.

i suspect there is a huge difference between what you would call 'specialist teaching' and what parents with kids in uk schools would recognise as the reality, op.

and that includes (as was mentioned before) the sn 'specialists', who actually don't have any formal training in sn, as it isn't part of the teacher training package. but, lo, they are still regarded as 'specialists' in the uk school environment.

all irrelevant, of course, as it isn't grounds for appeal anyway.

OP: you said this earlier: "A native child would enrich the learning of other pupils learning French. Multilingual and multicultural families should feel welcome and comfortable maintaining their multilingual and multicultural heritage in this country. Multiligualism involves a particular outlook, values, knowledge which are all iontegral part of education. Education is exactly the place for this.
The policy on RE encourages sharing and learning various religions. So why not allow a french speaking family to share their language and to learn it as part of the curriculum?"

All true, but I must point out that it will apply just as well in the school you have been allocated. even more so, in a way, because it will expose the other children to an additional language to the one currently on offer in MFL.

"we will preserve our linguistic cohesion as a family."

you expect a school to do that - when you can't?

Actually regarding the school being in special measures - it will be having pots of money thrown at it to get it out of SM and then work will begin in re-expanding the curriculum; which unless MFL is dropped, will include languages, just not necessarily French.

There is nothing to say that the other schools to which you applied will not change their choice of MFL leaving you with the same issues.

I am the French-speaking parent in a bilingual family.

This sounds all sorts of mental.

I a mdreading my child going to a primary or prep with French lessons because, aged 3, she can already sing in French, name all parts of the body including stuff like nipples, knows all her colours and can count most of the way to 20 (i.e. same in Eng and French) as well as use the subjunctive (sometimes) and GCSE-level structures like "j'ai failli" + infinitive.

I'm proud, but I'm not boasting - I would think this is par for the course in a lot of bilingual households.

The idea that a normal primary school (i.e. not Wix or the Lycee or something similar) could add to, stretch or even reinforce this is frankly laughable.

I've just asked dd what she did in French. She is 7. She said they played French whispers, learned a few words and sang some songs. Also played some games.

Incidentally, there are at least 6 bilingual children in her class.

I know of a school locally where I think there are maybe 5 French speaking children in the school. They find the french lessons terribly dull. They happen to be fluent because their parents (they all have French mothers/English fathers) have made the effort. One parent one language. In your case it should be even easier - two parents, one language. They have long holidays during the summer immersed in French language and culture. They converse obviously with parent at home in French, but also with family via Skype. They write letters to their families.

I still cannot understand how you truly believe that not having access to a half hour lesson a week would in any way impact upon the preservation of their cultural identities and language abilities.

Sorry but your best bet is to go on waiting lists for the other schools and hope a place comes up. It really will be too basic a French lesson to be of use in keeping your ds interest and "specialist" teaching could well prove flawed in a native speaker's eyes. Did you apply to your elder dd's school under the sibling rule too? Lots of bilingual kids go through pahses of not speakign one language or another, think you just haveot keep up teh exposure at home - tv, French only meals and activities, holdiays "home" - and they eventually concede.

btw gooseberrrybuses CH may not be part of EU but it does sign up to a reciprocal treaty which gives some parity including freedom of movement.

Seriously - are you so blinkered that you put these objections down to dislike of the French?

Perhaps it has passed by your attention that Britain is far more welcoming and open to cultural alternatives and different languages than the Swiss?

This is not persecution or grudge-bearing -- just honest opinions of a bad idea, an ineffective plan and in my opinion a self-serving attitude.

This is what dd aged 7 did in English (in Italy) last week.
"What colour is the book?" "It's blue" x 25 (with different examples)
(she also had to point out to the teacher that she'd missed the verb out completely and written "it blue" 25 times.

Ok thanks Liz -- wasn't sure if it was also entitled to the equivalence of public services as other EU members are.

Your arguments are 'this school is non-catchment for us, there is a closer school (with space)' and 'I have a child at another school'. French is not going to stand up. I'm really, really sorry you've had such bad luck with allocation but the reasons you're citing aren't going to get you anywhere, much as you think they will. In fact some of the ones you've suggested are downright counter-productive, like equal opps.

I have a friend whose children are fairly fluent-ish in Spanish. When they went to senior school, they had to opt for either Spanish or French. She was adamant that they start French, partly to give them a start in a thrid language, but also because they weren't going to learn anything they didn't already know in Spanish for several years and would become bored and frustrated. She kept up the Spanish at home.

I'm afraid the OP is clutching at straws and, to be fair, most of us would be doing the same. But posters on here have given sensible advice that this is a complete non-starter as grounds for appeal. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear.

Our child (currently still in the womb, so planning ahead here :o), is likely to end up at school in a country where English is not the native language. Not every school there offers English, though most do. It wouldn't occur to me that I had any greater right to a place at any of the schools providing English than the local nationals, why would I? If we decide we want teaching in English, we'll pay for the international school. Seems simple enough.

Phenikz,
I have sat on many admission appeals over the last few years and I can honestly say that I have never had a similar reason raised under social circumstances for admission, its a new one for me.
I can tell you that you will not get anywhere with trying to bring forward the arguement that it is human rights issue.That has been tested in court and there is no basis for it. Article 2 of protocol 1 says no person should be denied the right to education, however it is not an absolute right - it does not create a right to education in any particular institution or in any particular manner. Similarly the equality act is not going to be of any help.
I think that I would want to argue that you have been allocated to the one school that is not doing any french and is this is therefore disadvantaging your son. I suspect to have any chance of success you will have to be able to show that all the schools you did apply to were teaching french, that you have put yourself on the waiting list for each of the schools that you expressed a preference for and that you would accept any of the schools, rather than just the one that was your first preference. You therefore need to both get on the waiting list and also apply for appeals at all the schools on the preference sheet.
I can understand why the LA rejected your application to be considered under the social circumstances as most LAs do take a very narrow view of what is appropriate. I suspect that in the admission booklet it says, very few are actually allowed under this criteria.
You would need to structure your appeal in two different ways depending on the schools involved. For those where it is an infant class size appeal, you need to show a mistake was made or that the LA was unreasonable (perverse) in not accepting your wish to be considered under the social circumstances arguement. Where it is not an infant class size appeal, you can still use the same arguement but as it is also your own personal circumstances that can be taken into consideration in this kind of appeal, you can argue the effects on both your son and your family as well.
As we are really in unknown territory as far as how a panel wil react to this arguement, how likely it is to succeed is a complete guess and I would not like to make that guess. Best of luck.

Hello. As my name suggests, I sit on school admissions panels.

Frankly, if you came before my panel with this argument, I would struggle not to laugh. The coverage of French at primary school is so limited - both in terms of the time devoted to it and the level at which the language is taught - that I doubt it can be of any benefit to a child who is a native speaker and speaks the language constantly at home. I dare say that your child already speaks French at a level far above the French taught at Year 6 in primary school. To suggest that a child who already has considerable fluency will somehow be disadvantaged (or have their human rights infringed) at a school where French is not taught is too far-fetched for any panel to take seriously.

I can understand that you are disappointed to be allocated a school in special measures. If you tell us more about the reasons why you did not get a place in any of your preferred schools, we may be able to suggest other, more realistic avenues of appeal. You need, though, to remember that in infant class size cases (ie where the school admits 30/60/90/120 per year and the infant class size regulations limit class sizes to 30), you will only win at appeal if you can demonstrate that a serious error was made which deprived your child of a place or the decision was so unreasonable it should be overturned. The fact that your allocated school is in special measures is not in itself grounds for appeal. Arguing "I want my child to go to a better school" is also not going to win any appeal on its own.

For what it's worth, I'll also mention that the most sought-after, OFSTED outstanding school around here, that people clamber to get their children into, was in special measures a few years ago. A new leadership team turned it around and the same may well happen at your allocated school.

You can join waiting lists and/or appeal for any other school that's acceptable to you.

OH FFS.

Bullying?

Dont be a twonk.

I needed to get my DS into a particular school and appealed on these grounds:

It was the only school nearby built on one level.
It had street permit parking.

This allowed my OH to actively participate in my DS's education as he is disabled. The school was properly accessible rather than just called accessible. THis allowed my OH to drop and pick up my son from school as with a blue badge he could park outside the school.

The other school had refused us use of the carpark, was built on a hill and had lots of stairs and one lift which was alway locked. If you asked for the key you got a lot of eye rolling and huffing.

As it happened my DS ended up going to the special needs school. IF he hadnt and we had lost our appeal, I would have been the only parent able to go to open evenings, assemblies, plays and to do the school run.

I mention this as an example of why people need to get their children into particular schools. I cannot really make head nor tail of your reasoning tbh.

"un twonk"

wonder what the op thinks that is

Bullying? Sorry but that is laughable! Just because you aren't being told what you want to hear, it doesn't make it bullying.

At Ds infants, there were 27 different first languages spoken although I suspect that none of those families got in on the basis of speaking French, even though the school offers a fantastic French programme of learning to count to ten & basic colours :)

Also, although not relevant, I struggled to name 27 different languages :o

I haven't read all of this thread but I agree with Admission and Panelmember. I really can't see this being the basis for a successful appeal. I would expect your son to already be way ahead of any French that is taught in primary schools, or indeed in the first few years of secondary school. And this is certainly not a human rights or Equality Act issue.

I think we've pretty much covered the "why the second language cannot be considered exceptional medical or social circumstances" bit and the first Mrs Devere has shared her circumstances with you to illustrate what can be considered EM or SC.

Anecdotally, the EM or SC that I have heard of as being sufficient to win an appeal have been:

-Social worker who dealt with CP issues who did not want her DC to go to a (primary) school where she was working with families as it could cause issues for both families.

• A girl whose mother had died in Y5 being admitted to the (secondary) school that her cousins attended in order to enable her aunt to better support the family.

• A child with severe nut allergy who was admitted into the (senior) school nearest to the local hospital - although the mother (a friend of friend) herself said that they were really having to push to get it

As a primary school teacher who supposedly 'teaches' French but whose highest MFL-related qualification is GCSE German, my advice would be to visit the school you have been allocated and ask what provision they are making for the teaching of a MFL in KS2. You may be pleasantly surprised.

My school teach French for 30 minutes a week from Reception through to Y6. However, and this is a BIG however, I am one of the class teachers and therefore am also one of the French 'teachers'. It would make sense that a child in my class might plead human rights issues with regard to my French lessons but it wouldn't make sense for someone to appeal for my school merely because French is on the timetable. We use this to deliver the curriculum. Sadly it doesn't make up for having me as the person standing at the front.

I know a bit about bilingual issues having two bilingual children myself. And I have to say the kind of language teaching that is offered in junior school would be of no benefit whatsoever; all it would be likely to do is to frustrate your children. If you already speak a language fluently, why would it be a help to you to sit there for hour after tedious hour watching other children trying to get their heads round the fact that "je suis" means "I am" while "tu es" means "you are"? I had reasonable English (not native speaker standard) when I started English lessons at school, and I do not recall ever having learnt anything from an English lesson: I just sat at the back of the class with a book.

It's not as if the lessons can be spent on the kind of work your children need, on advanced conversation and reading and writing in French- that would exclude all the other children.

The job of maintaining your children's French must be done by you. You need to provide suitable books and films and songs and interesting conversation and opportunities to meet other native speakers.

My children are completely bilingual, not because I marched in and demanded Swedish lessons off the taxpayers, but because I did the work. And they do not think bilingualism is weird or embarrassing because I have taught them different.

Dd is now in y3 and has been taking French lessons since yr2. The school employ a French Teacher who comes in twice a week and delivers French to the whole of the school even so it is pretty rudimentary French even after two years with dd.I doubt that it would be enough to sustain your child's interest tbh much less preserve your family linguistics.

I really don't understand this: You are a French speaking family and yet are worrying that if your son doesn't do basic French at school he won't speak French? Are you serious?!

Do you really think that the one or two French lessons a week at primary level are going to make any difference? Really?

My children are bilingual in German and English but, like Cory, not because we demanded German lessons but because we work very hard at expsosing them to lots of German ourselves - the basic German or French taught at primary school is certaintly not enough to become fluent in the language.