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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Learning to read - seems to be no structure to it

319 replies

grumpypants · 15/04/2011 10:14

I'm a bit frustrated at the moment - ds (5) is in Y1 and brings home two books a week, one to read to me, and one to have read to him. There is just no continuity to the books he is meant to read and he is just not reading as well as i thought he would be by now. Older ds also couldn't read (worse than this) buy the end of Y1 and we hired a tutor for Y2 - he is now a free reader (Y3) and has a brilliant reading age.
The school read in groups, and apparently use several reading schemes.

Any thoughts?

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allchildrenreading · 15/04/2011 10:51

There is just no continuity to the books he is meant to read...

That's worrying, grumpyp. Can you list some of the books that he's meant to read independently and then someone here may be able to help - at least to see where the structure/lack of structure is coming from.

You really shouldn't have to pay for a tutor if the school is doing it right, but, if not, it's a wise decision to get a tutor (as the case of your older son demonstrates).

Original poster

grumpypants · 15/04/2011 11:09

sorry - meant that none of the books are ALL ORT/ Ladybird/ whatever. For example, he picks a Biff and Chip book one week, and then comes home with The Frog or something - all the books seem to be just books you could pick up that look interesting.

I feel a bit concerned about the tutoring, but also he was v keen on reading and now is still on cvc words.

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allchildrenreading · 15/04/2011 15:16

If you go to www.dyslexics.org. uk you'll find a list of decodable books - the trouble is that he's been given books that are in advance of his code knowledge and for many children this is incredibly frustrating.

The new Oxford Reading Tree books - Floppy Phonics - are decodable and if you can persuade your school to purchase some of these (and ignore the 'guidance' book that comes with each pack which totally contradict this structured approach). I'd also say, that once your child is secure, leave these books behind. They serve the purpose of initially helping children to read but are very stilted and lacking in imagination otherwise.

MrsDaffodill · 15/04/2011 15:19

Is there any kind of coloured sticker on the book?

It is actually good that they are not all one scheme. Many kids end up "scheme-dependent" - only able to read books from one scheme.

But some kind of levelling would be the norm. e.g. my youngest brings home four books a week, one from each of four schemes, but they all have a levelled sticker applied by the school on them. (usually a good mix of fiction, non-fiction and poetry).

seeker · 15/04/2011 15:20

Most schools do that. Different schemes suit different children, so books of the same level are all put in a box for the children to choose. Not a problem - rather a good thing. Some kids (like mine) love Biff and co, some don't and prefer non fiction. Or poems. Or whatever.

Children all learn at different speeds and he is only 5 - so at the younger end of the year. What does his teacher say about his reading?

ChippingInMistressSteamMop · 15/04/2011 15:22

I understand where you are coming from, but honestly, I think you just have to go with it - it does all just seem to click into place all of a sudden and you find yourself with a 'reader' on your hands :)

Original poster

grumpypants · 15/04/2011 17:23

That's really interesting seeker and MrsDaff - thank you. I thought they should be building on what they knew - you know, books with three words then the same three words plus a cple of extras and so on.

Chipping - reassuring, thank you.

allchildren - I will have a look, as it can't hurt to read more at home.

I feel a bit as tho he was great and has stalled - still on cvc words that he was getting at pre school iyswim?

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maizieD · 15/04/2011 18:12

I'm sorry. Two thirds of the way through Y1; a child who was keen to learn; still on CVC words. I hear alarm bells ringing.

Has he had any phonics teaching? Is the emphasis on sounding out and blending words for reading? What guidance were you given on helping your child when he encountered unfamiliar words?

I thought they should be building on what they knew - you know, books with three words then the same three words plus a cple of extras and so on.

I'm afraid that 'learning' two or three words at a time is not really how learning to read should work. He should be learning the way that sounds are represented by letters, or groups of letters, and using that knowledge to sound out and blend words. His reading matter for practising should really only contain words that are within his phonic knowledge; but having said that, even a small amount of phonic knowledge will give him access to a large number of words (far, far more than three 'familiar' ones with a couple of new ones...)

mrz · 16/04/2011 06:48

I would be concerned that a child is still only reading cvc words at this point in Y1. With very limited phonic knowledge it is possible to read ccvc & cvcc words.
But I would say reading from a variety of schemes is good (depending on the schemes of course)

Jezabelle · 16/04/2011 07:54

Grumpypants, if you want to buy a scheme for use at home, try this:
www.thebookpeople.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/qs_product_tbp?storeId=10001&catalogId=10051&langId=100&productId=186824

I've just bought it for DD1 (reception) and she's read a book a day over Easter. She's come on loads and they blow the ORT books out the water, (the old ORT books that is, I know some are keen on the Biff and Chip books). It's also a complete bargain with 17 stories within the 5 books in the most basic level.

MaizieD and Mrz give good advice. Phonics knowledge is the key and I suspect that's the approach the tutor used on your older DC?

Original poster

grumpypants · 16/04/2011 08:47

Thanks - reassured on the range of material coming back. In YR he was absolutely in love with phonics - doing all the sounds and actions but we seem to have all stalled at actually decoding words - he can't 'get' have and here for example, unless by sight and repetition.

Thank you for the link jez and the advice mrz and maisie Maybe I should speak to his teacher, but I really don't want to be one of those fussy mums.

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mrz · 16/04/2011 09:10

As he was learning the sounds and actions he should have been taught how to blend and segment words. Once s,a,t,i,p,n have been taught it is possible to make lots of words for reading and spelling.
Rather than buying books take a look at www.oxfordowl.co.uk/Library/Index/?AgeGroup=2&BookType=Phonics

Original poster

grumpypants · 16/04/2011 09:22

Thank you - I feel a bit stressed about this as this ds was my 'easy' one

OP posts:

allchildrenreading · 16/04/2011 10:54

I think that there is nothing like having the actual book and Jez's suggestion for the Superphonics readers looks good - they are very reasonably priced.

The oxfordowl website is a great resource - but I think the e-books might encourage 'whole word' learning, rather than sounding through the word and blending which struggling readers desperately need.

Gooseberrybushes · 16/04/2011 11:01

can you just buy the whole ORT and whizz through them

I knwo it's expensive but totally worth it

forget what's going on at school, sounds hopeless

damn shame for those who won't get any help outside from supportive parents

mrz · 16/04/2011 11:04

I can't think of a bigger waste of money personally [horror]

Gooseberrybushes · 16/04/2011 11:12

Well every child learns differently. ORT is bloody good. Quick and efficient and children love them. I think adults can find them boring and oppressive but then, they're not really for grown-ups.

Gooseberrybushes · 16/04/2011 11:14

I would say an averagely bright child with no dyslexia etc can whizz through ORT in Y1 and be free reading by Y2.

blueshoes · 16/04/2011 11:18

Hopefully your ds was taught using Jolly Phonics. If not, get the whole Jolly Phonics workbooks series - not particularly expensive. Your ds will be able to get through them in a term and have a firm foundation for blending and decoding which can then be supplemented by ORT word recognition. Phonics is also essential for learning spelling.

mrz · 16/04/2011 11:31

I would say it is a bloody waste of money to buy any complete reading scheme not just ORT!

Gooseberrybushes · 16/04/2011 11:32

Yes because we wouldn't want our children learning to read as quickly and efficiently as possible, would we? That would be just too ghastly.

Gooseberrybushes · 16/04/2011 11:34

Is jolly phonics the sign language one? isn't that a bit bizarre? One of mine had that. So, not only did they have to learn the letters, and the blending, and the application, they had to learn a silly sign.

Mine are only averagely bright but you tell them a couple of times that "ee" is eeeee and they get it. You tell them when they're reading their reading books and they just pick it up.

Gooseberrybushes · 16/04/2011 11:36

I think I'm mixing it up with something else. The sign language one was odd. I can see the value of signing with babies but this just seemed so strange.

mrz · 16/04/2011 11:40

Jolly Phonics has actions for each phoneme

Gooseberrybushes · 16/04/2011 11:42

Oh it is that one.

I think it's bizarre though I hear people go nuts for it.

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