reading levels, bloody reading levels (again...sorry!)

[MigratingCoconuts]

I don't even know why I am writing this, I know this is insane, but I have these little gremlins in my head telling me to worry. My DD is in year 1 and quite young for her age, her reading age is spot on average and she is probably about to go up to stage 5 reading.
And yet I read all about these 'free readers' at age 3 on MN and I know of friends of hers who are 4 or 5 levels higher.

There is history of de-coding issues (I was slow to read) in the family and I know that she is making progress. And I also know that some of these friends who are on higher levels are 6 months older...

I guess what I need to be re-assured about is that she is not the only one out there (nuts, i know, she is 'average' so there must be!) and a metaphorical slap round the face to bring me back to my senses!

"mine do a busy schedule of watching 'league of super evil' and digging muddy holes in the garden whilst running around the house with a 'tail' stuck in her pants shouting 'I'm a lizard, I'm a lizard!'"

This so made me laugh! Thank you!

"l" "i" "z" "ar" "d"! spelt out with a stick on the mud anyone?!

Why does 'blizzard' have zz, but 'lizard' only z?

I'm not too sure about the different years in UK - is Year 1 the first year (started at 4/5)?

My 7 year old (whose 8 in December) in in 'First Class' (I'm in Ireland) which is the three year into primary was on ORT level 4 and struggling at the begining of the year and is now happily making is way through level 9 (with a few draw a blank words in each book). boastful mum moment - I'm very proud of him!!!!

There is a crazy difference in ability within his class of 30 last year there was one boy who was reading without difficulty 'Diary of a Wimpy Kid' heard him read it myself and was as DS1 wasn't even coping with Level 2 at that time!!

I took comfort in the fact that the age difference in the class is something else youngest is 6 and the eldest is about to turn 9 this weekend. DS1 being in the younger end of this.

Mashabell who knows English is one mental language!

Muggle. Your ds would be in year 2 in the UK. Reception is 4-5, Yr1 5-6, Yr 2 6-7, and so on. Your ds has made loads of progress (I'd reckon about 2 and a half years in reading age) so you should be proud of him! Big "well done" to little muggle.

brilliant muggle!

I am way more relaxed about this now. I had been in a bit of a worry dip but can see that we are part way through a longer journey.

She's happy and the Easter holidays is a much needed rest..

(its tough being a lizard )

Did you know that going by English rules you can spell fish GHOTI?

gh as in laugh or tough
o as in women
ti as in nation

and we wonder why our children find spelling challenging

That's why synthetic phonics is structured the way it is. The English Alphabetic Code is completely understood; the way children learn is completely understood. Very little children have no difficulty in realising that a round shape can represent more than one thing. Ditto, properly and carefully taught, they have no difficulty in understanding the logic of the Code.
This sort of thing simply isn't an issue with myself or colleagues who use synthetic phonics programmes.

so glad I found this thread. I read regularly to my children, encourage them to read and in my mind, they seem to be doing ok. But each of my sons (aged 7 and 5 - years 2 and R and on reading levels 'newly free reader' and '3' respectively) have a child in their class who is light years ahead.

The boy in my younger son's class is on reading level 6 and his mother is at pains to tell me that all the time. I try my best to block it out and just keep on trucking with my guys but it always makes me feel that I'm somehow not doing enough. I've really appreciated the common sense advice on this thread. I know it's not a race. But it's hard when you get the competitive parent thing going on. Such a fine balance between wanting to shout to the world about your child because you're just so proud of them you could burst, and being a boastful show off.

You have to remember, I have NEVER been asked the following in a job or uni interview:
When were you toilet trained?
When did you stop wetting the bed?
When did you walk/crawl/roll?
How old were you when you got to Level 4 Peter and Jane (70s child alert)?

Therefore one must assume, all these things are pretty irrelevent in the scheme of things...

Did you know that going by English rules you can spell fish GHOTI?

gh as in laugh or tough
o as in women
ti as in nation

except following "English rules" gh never represents /f/ at the beginning of a word, and ti never represents /sh/ at the end of a word ...

Allchildrenreading
Children do have have difficulty in understanding the logic of the Code because there is simply no logic in spellings like 'speak speech', 'caught bought' or 'blue shoe'. They are just silly irregular spellings which children have to learn word by word.

Unfortunately most languages have some illogical spellings, although no other European one has as many as English. But in no other alphabetic language do u get identical spellings with different pronunciations. The sound of a few recently imported words from another language may be a bit uncertain, but only in English is it so common:
a: and ? apron, any, father
a-e: came ? camel
ai: wait ? said, plait
al: always ? algebra
all: tall - shall
are: care - are
au: autumn - laugh, mauve
-ate: to deliberate - a deliberate act
ay: stays - says

cc: success - soccer
ce: centre - celtic
ch: chop ?chorus, choir, chute
cqu: acquire - lacquer

e: end ? english
-e: he - the
ea: mean - meant, break
ear: ear ? early, heart, bear
-ee: tree - matinee
e-e: even ? seven, fete
ei: veil - ceiling, eider, their, leisure
eigh: weight - height
eo: people - leopard, leotard
ere: here ? there, were
-et: tablet - chalet
eau: beauty ? beau
- ew: few - sew
- ey: they - monkey

ge: gem - get
gi: ginger - girl
gy: gym ? gynaecologist

ho: house - hour
i: wind ? wind down
- ine: define ?engine, machine
ie: field - friend, sieve
imb: limb ? climb
ign: signature - sign
mn: amnesia - mnemonic

ost: lost - post
-o: go - do
oa: road - broad
o-e: bone ? done, gone
-oes: toes ? does, shoes
-oll: roll - doll
omb: tomboy - bomb, comb, tomb
oo: boot - foot, brooch
-ot: despot - depot
ou: sound - soup, couple
ough: bough - rough, through, trough
ought: bought - drought
oul: should - shoulder, mould
our: sour - four, journey
ow: how - low

qu: queen ? bouquet
s: sun ? sure
sc: scent - luscious, molusc
-se: rose - dose
ss: possible - possession
th: this - thing
-ture: picture - mature
u: cup ? push
ui: build ? fruit, ruin
wa: was ? wag
wh: what - who
wo: won - woman, women, womb
wor: word ? worn
x: box - xylophone, anxious

• y-: type - typical
• -y: daddy - apply z: zip ? azure

Above u can see just 101 words with sounds which are not like the main one for those 69 spellings (i.e. just one example of each), but some have different sounds in dozens of words.
If interested, look at the Sight Words page on www.englishspellingproblems.co.uk

well, that's the English language for you...

amazingly small children cope with it much better than Masha

I wonder why teachers with synthetic phonics expertise don't need to MAKE problems? If you are learning the piano, you don't plunge immediately into the minor key, complex chord structure, etc.etc. You teach the complexities slowly and gradually and give those who are struggling plenty of time to practice their new found skills.

But I would agree that children should be encouraged to 'get into reading' as quickly as possible - the books, at first, need to be appropriate to their code knowledge. It is only the children who struggle who need books to be chosen with care so that decoding skills are embedded and guessing doesn't become a default strategy.

how can you include omb in your list and the word tom-boy ? It's a compound word for goodness sake!

I love Masha's lists, because they are interesting, and fascinating, and I think most children actually enjoy the vagaries of English spelling when learning to read.

Possibly for children with dyslexia or other learning problems the lack of logic may slow them down, but the whole point of the synthetic phonics is that the teacher gradually covers all these possibilities.

Mrz technical question? at what point would all these different combinations be covered? I ask because it seems that most children get to a certain point then just work it out for themselves, based on their existing vocabulary.

they should be taught in Y1 (which is what the new phonics screening is meant to check).
Debbie Hepplewhite calls it incidental phonics teaching - if you read the Gingerbread man of ~Jack and the Beanstalk point out that in ginger the /j/ sound is made by the letter "g" and giant does the same if you have a George or Georgia use it as a teaching/learning point. Charlotte loves the ch making /sh/ like chandelier and chef.

www.readingchest.co.uk/

Use this fab book hire service for a while and you'll get to know all the 'levels'!

Mrz I like the sound of "incidental phonics", as it's what I try to do when reading as a parent helper. Is there an official list that shows "good examples" for each of the sounds?

Preferably not including "gynacologist"

I ask because we came across "plague" the other day, and I really struggled to think of other "---gue" words, but eventually managed to think of "vague".

brogue, vague, league, rogue, vogue must be more no official list that I know of

I was an early reader and my spelling is terrible. My DH late reader is far better than me. Both DCs were late readers. Eldest now year 6 is in top group for literacy and is always reading. My DD (Year 2) is only on Level 6 but is now really getting into her stride and is reading everything in sight. She just took her time and is a great speller. I learnt to stop worrying with my first so can understand. I really would not get worked up. Read to your children. It really helps their interest. John Wyndham and How to Train your Dragon were the inpiration for DS and Road Dahl appears to be the trick for DD

...fatigue...not many spring to mind...

argue

meringue.

Is that an English word though?