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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Did not get any of 3 choices of primary school - help with appeal please

57 replies

HCqueen · 11/04/2011 16:11

My daughter has not been offered any of my 3 choices of primary school, on the basis that they are all over-subscribed this year. The school she has been offered gets a Good Ofsted but it is also in a disadvantaged area. Apparently the majority of children starting the school are below average intelligence and they only bring them up to average by the time they leave. This is now what I want for my daughter - she is a clever girl and the last thing I want is for her to be held back.
Since I applied for the school my partner and I have split up and his new flat is very close to the school I'd like her to attend. This will form the basis of my appeal. However, I'm concerned that this will not matter as they base the distance on the address of the parent who claims the child benefit (which is me).
Has anyone had any success in a similar case, or can offer me any advice? Appeal forms are not available until 3rd May so I have a few weeks to prepare.
Thanks, Helen

OP posts:

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BleachedWhale · 11/04/2011 16:16

There is no way a 'Good' school would hold back any child.
There must be a range of intelligence within the school - intelligence is not linked to economic advantage! Only averages are available and cannot tell you how many individual children within the school are actually high-achieving.
And believe it or not many parents who are not wealthy care passionately about thier children's education.
Have you actually visited the school, or is this hearsay?
Did you apply to your local school or just to sought after over-subscribed schools?

RitaMorgan · 11/04/2011 16:18

You sound like you're of below average intelligence yourself - I'd say the school is the least of your child's problems.

GypsyMoth · 11/04/2011 16:19

Lougle · 11/04/2011 16:28

Oh dear, HC Queen, I think that your OP probably doesn't reflect your true feelings on the matter?

The best thing is to actually visit the school, and ask them how they differentiate for the different ability groups within the year. Ask them what their expectations are of a child in Year R (a GOOD school will say 'play, play, play some more, learn independence skills and co-operation).

You may find that you are very pleasantly surprised by what you see...a school with a higher deprivation index gets more funding, and they therefore have more resources to teach with.

StewieGriffinsMom · 11/04/2011 16:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

HCqueen · 11/04/2011 16:38

My intention was certainly not to indicate that intelligence was linked to economic advantage (perhaps a bad choice of words). In fact, my house is actually classed as being in a disadvantaged area.

I'm going to visit the school she has been offered next week to see for myself. I'm trying to keep an open mind - like you say, there must be some children there who are high-achieving. I'm not a snob at all - I was brought up on a council estate myself and went to what was probably classed as an average school. I'm just worried that this particular school may hold her back.

The school she has been offered is the nearest to my home but the other isn't much further and none of the schools are what you would class as 'sought-after', just normal community schools.

OP posts:

clam · 11/04/2011 16:40

GypsyMoth · 11/04/2011 16:41

oh god,clam.......nooooooo!!!!

BleachedWhale · 11/04/2011 16:41

DCs school is in a 'disadvantaged' area, if you wanted to describe it like that. High ratio of free school dinners, most of the catchment is a council estate, even (and this really sets some people panicking) a v high ratio of black children and children who are from ESOL and / or refugee families. A below average ability on entry to the school, and above national average attainment by Yr 6.

It is the happiest school you could imagne. A great atmosphere and ethos, children who are happy to learn and lots of community spirit.

How can you genealise about the general intelligenc of the children who attend the school? You sound like a dreadful snob.

Original poster

HCqueen · 11/04/2011 16:43

Thanks RitaMorgan - good post, you've been a great help.

I'm not getting into an argument with anyone - I came on here for some help but your replies have made out that I'm some sort of snob, which I can assure you I'm not.

My choice of words should have been better. Apologies if it offended anyone.

OP posts:

minko · 11/04/2011 16:49

We moved house recently and DD started at what had been judged a 'good' school in 2007. It seemed good to me too... until she started. It soon became apparent that the school had serious issues and a couple of months ago had an ofsted report and has been put under special measures. I would say that the schools main problem is the parents of the pupils and their attitude - which was rubbish - attendance and lateness was dreadful. We were thankfully able to move her to another school after 4 weeks.

No practical advice I'm afraid, but do what you can to get your kid into a school you feel happy with.

BleachedWhale · 11/04/2011 16:52

The best advice is to visit the school.

prh47bridge · 11/04/2011 16:53

I'm afraid you don't have the basis of a successful appeal here. Neither your opinion of the allocated school nor the fact that your partner now lives near the preferred school give you a winning case.

Most primary school appeals are infant class size. If that is the case with your preferred school your appeal should only succeed if you can show that the LA has made a mistake and your daughter would have been admitted if they'd got it right. The fact you have split up with your partner and he now lives closer to the school does not mean the LA has made a mistake. If they measured the distance correctly from the address given on your application they have not done anything wrong.

If it is not an infant class size appeal the address where your daughter lives is irrelevant unless she has a medical condition which prevents her travelling to the allocated school. The appeal is then about whether the prejudice to your daughter's education through not being admitted to this school outweighs the prejudice to the school through having to admit an extra pupil.

If you say to an appeal panel what you have said here about the allocated school it will not help you and may actually harm your case. You will not win an appeal by being negative about the allocated school. You have to be positive about the preferred school and explain what is special about your daughter that means she has to go to this school.

SoupDragon · 11/04/2011 16:56

As I understand it, an appeal is only successful if you can show the procedures have not been followed correctly.

I don't think lying about where your child normally resides fulfills this.

GiddyPickle · 11/04/2011 16:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RumourOfAHurricane · 11/04/2011 17:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

PollyParanoia · 11/04/2011 17:06

I'm just reiterating what other posters have said. I doubt the children are of 'below average intelligence' but Ofsted might describe them as of below average attainment in the early years. This is true of my dc's school (lot of eal, sn and fsm) but by the end they get sats in late 80s/early 90s. Which means the schoolhas developed them more than one where everyone arrives with above average attainment.
Don't appeal but get onto waiting lists and keep checking. But also, do use this message board as a warning to you to be mindful of your language. Should you find yourself using such language to neighbours or people who might have children at this 'thicko' school, you might find yourself in trouble.

clam · 11/04/2011 17:14

"Apparently the majority of children starting the school are below average intelligence and they only bring them up to average by the time they leave. "
If, by this, you actually mean attainment, not intelligence, then the school is doing a good job, by taking them further on in their learning than the entry statistics indicate.

SoupDragon · 11/04/2011 17:31

BTW, where you say the children are below average on entry and average when they reach Y6, OFSTED will be looking at added value. DSs school was once penalised because the children were generally bright on entry so the perceived added value wasn't so great.

helenbicari · 11/04/2011 17:33

Clam I would appreciate if you didn't mention my name in another posts.And I hope this isn't you one day,cos unless you experience it,you can't really understand how it feels.

clam · 11/04/2011 17:34

I have experienced it. I know exactly the issues.

mylovelymonster · 11/04/2011 17:35

Ah, now I didn't want DD to go to our nearest school either, for similar reasons, plus also it is a 'satisfactory' school; the head was on a sicky when we phoned up for a visit last autumn - none scheduled - so we thought - nah. Also parents (mums) have been known to have fights in the playground, so not happy it will be a nice safe environment.

We didn't get into our favourite either - few 100m further away, still easy walk, and 'oustanding'. Girl just moved in around the corner got in though
We will be on continuing interest, but have a place offered at an up&coming school 2.5 km away.
HCqueen - I share your concerns/anxieties, and sympathise with your understandable dissappointment that you weren't offered one of your choices. There's plenty of time for the situation to change however, and if you go onto your local authority website you should be able to find which schools have places available now - i.e. not all their spaces were fully assigned in first round allocations. I was surprised that there were a few nice village schools which had places, and we may take a serious look at these also for the next round of applications.

helenbicari · 11/04/2011 17:45

If you have experienced that, why are you being so judgemental? When you find out your child didn't get into any school of your choice,where you not upset?

clam · 11/04/2011 17:54

I think you are the one being judgmental. As numerous people pointed out on your thread.

helenbicari · 11/04/2011 18:00

Ah ok, anyway as I said,please don't mention my name in another posts

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