Any tips for primary school appeals?

[smallmotherbigheart]

This is my first time doing this, and I want to do this right. My son didn't get into any of the preferred schools that we listed? Has anyone done an appeal before?

I first read this thread in April, when I received our school allocation; it was incredibly useful then. The last time I checked, there was no new activity, and I have been so caught up in appeal paperwork, phone calls etc. that I haven't looked for a couple of months - I wish I had, just to know there are others out there in the same boat. Thank you for all your expert advice, especially prh47bridge, who seems so endlessly tireless in his/her objective advice and help.

To reflect on my experience to date (before asking for concrete advice): wow, what a bruising experience this has been! I was assured by the head of my catchment school in Dec 13 that we would get a place, and thought nothing of it until the decision arrived and we were allocated a school some distance away. My second and third preferences were my second and third nearest schools, which are also over-subscribed. We are among the first two or three families to affected like this in this area (I haven’t met them) - there has been one former year that not all catchment children got places, but it seems that there was room in the surrounding schools to soak it up... not this year. It is so incredibly isolating. I am finding myself avoiding other parents at our local parks, for example, so as not to have to go through it yet again with other parents, dealing with their disbelief, then shock, then sympathy.

I have been to appeal, and it was not upheld. It was a brutal experience. It was not an ICS appeal, and in previous years two to three appeals have been upheld. Two were upheld this year, but not ours. I have complained to LGO about how the hearing conducted, and I think that I have a valid complaint - I'm not just moaning about how awful it was (I can give further details if anyone is interested, but I am SO aware of my capacity to go on, and on, and on… and on, about this subject at present - my poor friends - that I won't at this time).

The specific advice I am asking about relates to reserve lists. For my catchment school, we were third on the reserve list after the initial allocations in April (so I was hopeful). When I rang after the second date in May (19th I think), we were down to seventh (and I know that - at least - two places had been declined). We are now fifth. There are two questions I have relating to this:

1. How can I check that the LA are observing the appropriate criteria with the list? I have questioned it in writing, and received a reasonable, generalised response, in terms of families moving in to the area and late applications who are nearer in distance to the school than us - do I just need to take their response as fact?
2. Two appeals have been upheld; I have assumed that this effectively makes us seventh on the reserve list (fifth +2), and a recent conversation with a LA education officer suggested this was the case. Looking at a post a couple of pages ago, this should not be the case: the school has to accept the PAN +2… Yes?

Many thanks in advance.

Thanks tiggytape. As I expected, but it helps prevent it from going round and round in my head.

If, in the unlikely event that I get another appeal hearing, I'll be back for more...

"Probably the best bet is to join more waiting lists and to maximise your chances of an offer that way."

My understanding from talking to an education officer this week is that I have to apply formally to be on the reserve list - is this correct? There are a number of schools I would love to be on the reserve list - there are five schools closer then our allocated one. This week I reapplied, replacing our third choice with a school that may have reception places (further away than our allocated school, but what's in the odd mile or two once you're in the traffic) and this means that we are not longer on the reserve list for our original third choice.

I have seriously considered keeping my son at nursery, but the manager is not keen, and actually, nor am I - all his friends will have transitioned. I am left having to view his reception year as another childcare, preschool year... If he doesn't end up being schooled locally, I see no future in our locality for us a family.

You are allowed one appeal each academic year for each school you want

The current appeals code has clarified this a little. You are entitled to one appeal for an academic year, not one per academic year. You have already appealed for Reception so, unless there is a significant and material change you cannot appeal for Reception again. You can only appeal for Y1, which means appealing at around the same time next year.

Yes, you have to apply to a school to go on the waiting list. Some LAs limit the number of waiting lists you can join. I think this is wrong but the Schools Adjudicator has ruled that LAs are allowed to do this.

Appealing for my catchment school next year is unlikely to be a reasonable option as it then becomes an ICS issue (two reception classes that feed into three Yr 1 & 2 classes). My best hope is our second preference; while we are only 13th on the reserve list, the school has a PAN of 90 and is in the city centre, so lots of transient families and churn (tho I realise this can work against us as well). I will ask in Sept whether we can be added to a third list.

A frustration for me is that the reserve list (our LA does not call them waiting lists) is automatic - ie if you didn't get a place, you're on it - until the 31st December; beyond this, you have to actively elect to stay on the lists. This means I won't get a true picture of our situation and our odds until 2015. If the lists became elective in the autumn half term, I would consider keeping him at nursery for the half-term; anything longer than this does not feel right for him.

There is something strange here. You say that the catchment school has two reception classes and then three yr1/2 classes in other words it has a PAN of 45. You say that any school appeal next year will be ICS because there will be three classes of 30 but actually the appeals this year should have been an ICS regs appeal on the basis of future prejudice in year 1/2. Whilst it would make no difference in terms of your appeal outcome it does make me start to worry when such a basic mistake appears to have been made by the admission authority.
When you say that you were assured by the head of the catchment school that you would get a place, was that in writing? If so that would constitute a reasonable expectation of a place being offered and would therefore potentially open up a second line of appeal. My guess is that it was not in writing though.
On the basis of where you appear to be on the waiting list I think I would agree with you that there is little chance of a place becoming available in the near future at the catchment school and you do need to look elsewhere for a school place.
If you want to talk privately about the appeal hearing please feel free to PM me. I may be able to give you an idea of where you stand in terms of what happened and whether the LGO will take any action.

You say that any school appeal next year will be ICS because there will be three classes of 30 but actually the appeals this year should have been an ICS regs appeal on the basis of future prejudice in year 1/2.

My understanding has been that it was not an ICS appeal given the two small reception classes, but that the panel would consider future prejudice. Over the last five years, at least two appeals, and more often three, are upheld for this school each year. I made a point at the beginning of my individual hearing about how the school has managed well in the past, despite being over PAN, and I appeared to alienate the panel chair as a consequence... Maybe this makes sense to you?

I think that what makes this whole admission process so difficult (and this is reflected repeatedly in this thread) is the sense of powerlessness, of being at the complete mercy of luck and bureaucracy. And it is regarding something that is so fundamental to us for the next 14 years. I went into my appeal feeling well prepared; as it turned out, given the appellants this year and that particular panel, I feel very strongly that I was too well prepared, that they considered me too competent and middle class, with "options" (this last point being the basis of my LGO complaint). My psychological need to feel that I have some control over our future definitely worked against me on the day. Over the last few days I have had to seriously question myself over whether I have applied for another school merely to give myself a sense of control, rather than for the benefit of my son (benefit to my son won, but not by a huge margin).

I would certainly welcome some objective insight into my complaint to the LGO. I appreciate I am a little biased

My guess is that it was not in writing though.

Your guess is right. I doubt she would deny she said it if asked, but I don't see how that could happen. I have seen her more recently and she was sympathetic. I told her that I had included her statement in my written appeal (I don't think I mentioned it at the hearing - probably a mistake), and suggested that she think twice before saying something similar in future years - false expectations and all that.

That does not make sense at all. If they have a PAN of 45 and are running 3 classes of 30 in Y1 and Y2 any appeal should be heard under infant class size regulations. The fact that they have two small reception classes is irrelevant. As Admission says, this is a basic mistake. Whilst it hasn't affected the outcome of your appeal it clearly raises the question of how many other mistakes they have made.

If you want to PM me with details of your complaint to the LGO I would be happy to give an opinion. From what you have said so far a lot will depend on whether you can back up your thoughts that the panel considered you too middle class, etc. If that is just an impression it is unlikely to get you very far. However, if there is evidence to back it up that is another matter.

I have looked back over the appeal paperwork to double-check I didn't misunderstand, and there is no reference to ICS except in the main body of the LA's argument. I don't think it would help my case with the LGO though, to point out this issue!

Hello Everyone

My oldest is 3 and will be turning 4 this coming march and my little one is 18 months. in the fullness of time i want ,probably like most parents, to get them both in the same school.

We are considering moving to a " nicer" area. our local primary school is beyond rough and has failed its ofstead inspections several times.

i want my children to get into a lovely little school, i have asked that schools admissions officer what the catchment area is and she is refusing to advise me of what roads fall into the catchment area. i have also tried the local authority who have advised that they cant tell me this. My question is how do i find out which roads are in the area.. i really don't want to move and find out that we are too far out again..

my other question is what is a good reason or good example of exceeding the 30 children in a class...

many thanks x

I would look at the schools admission criteria. Does it prioritise siblings? If so you could ask the distance of the last non sibling to be admitted in the last 3 years which might give you some idea. Beware though as they can change rapidly.

There is normally no such things as catchment which is why they can't tell you. Normally after looked-after and siblings places are all other kids, with however many places are left going to the nearest so that can obvious change from one year to the next.

The council website should tell you the furthest distance offered for each admission category for this years admissions though which will give you an idea. No guarantees though.

In answer to your second question boysmummyjp2 I am aware of infant classes that have gone over 30 for twins and admitting statemented children. I don't know if this is the case everywhere,

If you are asking about appeals, they are virtually unwinnable unless the admissions authority have made a bad mistake and you can show they should have offered you a place. This is rare. Occasionally a child/family with some sort of special need wins an appeal but the case has to be absolutely overwhelming for that school.

Firstly, you need to find out whether your local authority actually has catchment areas or whether they admit using distance from school. If it's the former, they should be able to provide you with a map, if it's the latter they should publish or give you the category and distance of the last child admitted.

If your authority does have catchment areas, there's no guarantee you will get a place just because you live in it. I would have no chance of getting a place at our catchment school despite living less than 0.2miles from it. You will still need to check the distance that they normally admit to.

There aren't many reasons a school will admit above 30 in Reception - a statement of SEN naming the school that is completed after the initial places have been allocated, twins on either side of the cut off, correcting a mistake made by the admissions authority and admitting a child where there is no other school place within a reasonable distance are probably about it.

what is a good reason or good example of exceeding the 30 children in a class

There are only very specific circumstances in which a school can have more than 30 children in an infants class (Reception, Y1 or Y2). The limit and the exceptions to it are set by law. There are no arguments you can put forward that would persuade the school to breach that limit.

Most of the examples given by Rafa only apply when the child is admitted outside the normal admissions round. The only exceptions allowed in the normal admissions round are multiple births where one gets in under the 30 limit and children with SEN who will normally be taught in an SEN unit attached to the school. The school can also go over the limit to admit a child who should have been admitted in the normal admissions round but who got missed out by mistake and for children admitted as the result of an appeal. However, you can only win an appeal if there has been a mistake or if the decision to refuse to admit was irrational.

Thank you everyone for your replies. Getting into the primary school of choice almost seems harder than getting a place at university :o(

Our daughter was refused a mid-term application to an outstanding primary school, as it was full (only 25 in class) and we live 3 miles away. We appealed, and she was granted a place (we're so thankful). Our reasons were :

• We saw the head master and he said he didn't mind where we live, as long as we could take and collect our daughter there on time.

• There is a short cut to the school, so morning and afternoon traffic wouldn't be a problem. Also the school she's attending was 5 miles away and we always got there on time, even with all the tram building work in Nottingham.

• Our daughter would not have a school to go after the Spring term, as we had given the private school one terms termination notice (see my topic - Nottingham Girls High School and eczema) BTW, going from state to private school is easy and quick, but going from private to a good state school is difficult and slow.

• The school would allow our daughter to bring home packed lunches, and wouldn't be forced to eat school canteen lunches as the private school. (Our daughter is sensitive to dairy, nuts, eggs and soya but the private NGHS head refused her to bring packed lunches, even though the school contract stated it's permitted. We complaint to their trust, GDST, but they basically ignored our complaints and refused a panel hearing.)

• The school would be expanded in the Autumn term to cater more children, so it's just an extra child for one term

• Our daughter already knew some pupils here, so she would settled in very quickly

• Our daughter is bright, sociable and her mother tongue is English, so she wouldn't need any special attention

Our daughter has attended the new school for one and half terms now, and she's very happy there. More importantly, her eczema is now back to slight, from severe when she was at the NGHS. We are so grateful that she got a place at an outstanding school after an appeal.

The difference between your appeal and some other posters' situations is that while the class you were appealing for was 'full' at 25, there are essentially 5 places that can be given to anyone who can successfully argue that the negative effects of their child of not attending a school outweighs the negative effects of admitting an extra child.

Once the class size hits 30, that option isn't available and none of the arguments that helped with your appeal would win an appeal based on ICS.

Yes, if the class size was 30, then the school could not legally take on an extra child.

The maximum class size for our daughter's new school is still 25, until September, because there's some structural restrictions. Thankfully the headmaster told us before the appeal that the school would be expanded, so we used it as a counter argument during the hearing. (It's very useful to visit a school before an appeal, to get some background information and check out the school facilities.)

Even when a case is not infant class size most of those arguments would not usually carry a great deal of weight. I suspect you won because the school was about to expand and, from the sounds of it, the head was happy to take your daughter. On that basis an appeal panel should conclude there was little or no prejudice to the school from admitting your daughter.