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Any tips for primary school appeals?

999 replies

smallmotherbigheart · 04/04/2011 22:30

This is my first time doing this, and I want to do this right. My son didn't get into any of the preferred schools that we listed? Has anyone done an appeal before?

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prh47bridge · 05/05/2012 21:31

I still think you have a decent chance of persuading an appeal panel that, in the circumstances, your LA acted unreasonably by refusing to remove your first preference from your list of preferences given that there are real safeguarding concerns. The LA are not allowed to act unreasonably so they have potentially done something wrong. The question is whether the appeal panel will agree.

PanelChair · 05/05/2012 21:56

I just said something similar on the other thread - it's rather confusing having a conversation in two places at the same time. Anyway, I think that because of the gravity of the issues around child protection you might take the panel with you.

mossity · 05/05/2012 21:59

Thanx. I'm just not sure if I'm cut out for the whole appeal route. I'm gonna ask to go on other waiting lists when they reopen on tues... I don't want dd moving after a term etc. Ohhh why is nothing ever simple. Thanx for all your advice... It's been good to speak to someone who knows their stuff as my LEA doesn't seem to know a lot. I spoke to admissions last week and ask for some info in excepted pupils and they actually said what is that... Sigh xxx

SchoolsNightmare · 05/05/2012 22:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pixie1104 · 09/05/2012 14:07

Hi, newbie here, came across this thread whilst desperately searching for advice on appealing a primary school place. A bit of background; my daughter was offered a place at our 3rd choice school which isn't a great school but we accepted it as we wanted to secure a place and the one consolation point was that her best friend also got allocated there. Last night her best friend's mum contacted me to say that they've now had a letter from the council (Kent) offering their daughter a place at what was both of our's first choice school. They live less than a mile from us and only about .2 of a mile closer to said school I believe. This is gutting news of course and has reopened all my anxieties about my little girl going to the poorly performing school, now all by herself. The preferred school has a PAN of 20 and is an excellent school which is always over-subscribed. Unfortunately we are actually on holiday in Florida at the moment so I called the council from here just in case they'd written to us too while we've been away but they said we're 8th on the waiting list for the school at the moment. I'm wondering if I can find some grounds for appeal and if so if it can safely wait till we're back in the UK on the 18th? If I peal would I be better taking the friendship / security angle or looking at what the preferred school can offer that the allocated one doesn't? Any advice greatly appreciated

kilmuir · 09/05/2012 14:10

what grounds would you appeal on though

prh47bridge · 09/05/2012 20:40

Do you know how classes are organised? If they have 3 mixed classes covering Reception, Y1 and Y2 this will be an infant class size appeal. That means you should only win if you can show a mistake has been made.

However, if it is not an infant class size appeal you stand a better chance. Friendship/security issues rarely win appeals unless there is evidence that your child has specific issues in this area. You can mention this aspect but I would concentrate on anything the preferred school can offer that the allocated one doesn't and that would be of particular benefit to your daughter.

weedonleg · 10/05/2012 17:24

We're relocating and just visited a primary school which currently has 2 spaces for reception in September. The school has a PAN of 40 and maintains two classes throughout the infants (I've no idea how they can afford to do this!). Hopefully there will still be a place when we move to the area over the summer, but the headteacher said that if there wasn't, we should appeal, and the school wouldn't oppose it (in fact she said they would be delighted as they would get extra funding - the headteacher would love to increase her PAN but the LEA won't let her!). I was just wondering in this instance (non-ICS) how high the bar would be set for getting a place - the school will be the nearest to our house, all other schools are over 3 miles away, we are new to the village and want our son to attend the village school to help him settle and have local friends. Will that cut it? Or would we also need to come up with some characteristics specific to this school that makes it suitable for him? Thanks in advance!

prh47bridge · 10/05/2012 22:40

Without knowing the case to refuse admission it is impossible to say. Even with that information I hesitate to second guess what an appeal panel will think. I would always recommend coming up with some features of the school that make it particularly suitable for your son.

spring12 · 10/05/2012 23:04

Hello, it's my first time here and i'm looking for some advice with regards to appealing for a primary place for my son. Unfortunately we live out of catchment of the school in question and were refused a place due to it being over subscribed. We have two daughters in the school already and the situation that we have is that one of my daughters has a SEN statement and to move her to the same school as my son would just be hugely detrimental to her education and would probably harm her psycologically. In your opinion do I have a case for appeal?

prh47bridge · 10/05/2012 23:11

Not as you have described it here. You haven't given any reason why you would have to move your daughter to the same school as your son. But if this is an infant class size case you will struggle to win unless you can show that a mistake has been made and your son should have been admitted.

UpsetGiraffe · 11/05/2012 22:51

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franticmother · 14/05/2012 22:04

My daughter has been refused a place at the school my son goes to (currently in p2). I failed to mention her medical condition Asthma Type Bronchospasm in the placing request form as i understand the use of a ventolin inhaler can be treated at any school. However my GP has supplied me with a supporting letter for my appeal that the morning drop to 2 different schools and the emotional upset of not attending the same school may cause worsening of her symptoms (which are exacerbated by rushed physical exertion and emotional upset). Is this evidence likely to hold much weight in an appeal when i have been told that all the p1 classes have the maximum of 25 children in each class? please advise

UpsetGiraffe · 15/05/2012 01:27

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prh47bridge · 15/05/2012 10:31

I don't think the LGO will get involved in your case until after the appeal. Given that you seem to have clear evidence of a mistake I would definitely refer the matter to the LGO if your appeal is rejected.

Turning to your questions:

a) You would have to ask to be sure. It is possible they spotted mistakes just before offers went out and decided it was easier to offer additional places than bump 2 children off the list with knock on effects elsewhere. But there may be some other explanation. The LA should know why they went over PAN so it would be worth asking them.

b) Without knowing the reason for the additional 6 children all we can do is speculate. But the point the appeal panel should consider is that the school has admitted these children and, unless they are higher in the admission criteria than your child (they are all looked after Catholic children, for example) or have all been admitted as a result of mistakes, your child should have been one of the additional 6 admitted. To be honest, if they suggest mistakes I would question why they didn't take the cases to appeal as this takes them nearly 15% over PAN. Indeed, I would personally wonder if the "mistakes" were deliberate.

c) Looking at the admission criteria, someone with an exceptional social & medical need would stay within their category but would move to the head of the queue within that category. There is no way this would put someone in category 3 ahead of someone in category 2. Special needs are separate. A child with a statement of SEN naming the school would be admitted automatically. But they would not then be in any admissions category as they don't go through the normal admissions process. And I would be very surprised if there were 6 children entering Reception with statements obtained at the last minute.

d) The net capacity will not include the nursery. The official figure for the number in school should also not include the nursery but it is possible the school has given the number including the nursery. If there are 325 children excluding the nursery it suggests they regularly go over PAN. As they apparently went over PAN by 2 in 2008 and 2011, they must have gone further over PAN in other years. I would ask them for their class arrangement. That will tell you how many children are in each year and how they are split into classes.

e) The net capacity starts with a calculation based on the number and size of rooms. That should exclude the room(s) used by the nursery as that is not part of the school. The calculation produces a range. Net capacity is set somewhere within that range. Unless the nursery stops using a room the number of children in the nursery makes absolutely no difference to the net capacity. PAN should be roughly one seventh of net capacity but they are allowed to set a PAN higher or lower than that indicated by the net capacity.

f) As they are still over PAN there isn't really a space available. However, in the circumstances I would email them saying that you understand there is a place now available and, as you are first on the waiting list, you trust it will be offered to you. If they don't offer you the place you can bring this up at appeal, particularly if it emerges that they don't really have good reasons for the additional 6 children offered places.

Just to add, the rules are that the school needs the LA's permission to admit over PAN. If they have admitted 48 without the LA's agreement they have broken the rules. That is unlikely given that offers are made by the LA. But it does mean the LA should know why the additional offers were made.

mossity · 15/05/2012 13:58

We're now first on the list :-)

Niknaks911 · 15/05/2012 22:28

We live in Wandsworth. We were 2nd on the waiting list for our 1st choice school and have now been told we are 3rd due to a 'late sibling applicant'. Is this right that they should be allowed to jump to the front of the queue despite missing the January deadline?

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 15/05/2012 22:38

Yes, because the waiting list is held in the same order as the admissions criteria. The penalty of applying late is missing out on the initial offers of places, not going to the bottom of the waiting list.

weedonleg · 16/05/2012 07:30

and also be aware that if a child moves into the area closer to the school than you live (assuming distance to school is an admission criteria) you will again move down the waiting list :(

mossity · 16/05/2012 19:13

Ours in on distance and luckily we live just metres away.... Someone would have to move more or less next door to be closer!!!

mossity · 17/05/2012 13:48

Well I spoke to soon! Admissions just rang to clarify I was deffo giving up our first choice which was offered ( seriously these people don't get it!) whilst on the phone I got them to check position on waiting list and she's moved back to 2nd again.... Arghhhh! I wasn't gonna appeal but think I'm gonn give it a shot! Nothing to loose and everything to gain!!! So when kids are in bed later and dp is working I'll make a start on the form!!!

marysgarden · 17/05/2012 16:42

Hi everyone,just wanted to say good luck to you all if you are appealing. I had to appeal last year for my son and I felt like most of you do,confused,panicked and wonder where on earth do you start!. Just wanted to say as long as you are fully prepared for your case and you cover every aspect you can think of,you will feel much more calm and relaxed on the day knowing you have done everything you can. It took me 6 weeks to research everything I needed,but if you get the result at the end its worth it. Plus the experts on here were worth their weight in gold,so,so helpful and I'm very grateful to them all. Best of luck everyone
Mary

juedanlil · 18/05/2012 11:29

Thanks Marysgarden , did you win your appeal ? Like most on here this is ruling my life at the min , trying to cover everything I can . Any advise you can give is very much appreciated . How was your hearing ? I am so worried about it Xx

marysgarden · 18/05/2012 16:02

Hello,yes I did win my appeal. I understand what your going through,I thought of nothing else everyday and night,it got to the point where the word 'appeal' was banned from the house by the kids!! The hearing wasn't as bad as I thought,although it can seem very daunting with people looking at you!. Luckily the LEA give their points first,so that helps,then you are asked if there was anything that I wanted to add to what the LEA had said. After a shaky few minutes, I started referring to all my points and argued against their case that it would not cause prejudice admitting an extra child to the school.Thats where the valuable research comes in,gather everything you can as to why you feel the school can take more pupils. Look at past PAN numbers,any bulge classes,any new buildings,it all helps. Fortunate for me I managed to win the appeal at stage one,but if that fails then you will have to move to stage 2 which is what your personal reasons are for wanting that school. you will have to argue why it is ONLY that school is the only one for your child and why the offered school would not meet your childs needs. Again this is where research comes in,medical letters etc,it carries more weight. As long as you are prepared and feel confident that you have a good case, it should not be as worrying as you may think. I wish you all the luck in the world.

Mary

Pixie1104 · 19/05/2012 23:04

I'm back home now and starting to do my research but have discovered (to my dismay) that the closing date for appeals was 14 May, 4 days before we even left Florida so there's nothing I could have done. However, reading the council website, it does say that you can still appeal after this date but your appeal will be given lower priority - what exactly does this mean?
Obviously I need to make a lot of phonecalls on Monday, apart from anything else I can't seem to find anywhere information on how the reception class size is organised in my preferred school to know whether the PAN of 20 means that the infant class size rule won't apply or whether it does.
What I have found out is that our preferred school has excellent results in mathematics which is the angle I'm planning to use as my daughter's key workers at nursery are always telling me she has exceptional maths skills and we've known this for a while. However I'm hitting another hurdle here as on the performance tables for our allocated school most of the data is listed as SUPP meaning I can't make a useful comparison between the two schools.
Also, can someone tell me if it's okay to quote Ofsted reports in an appeal as the reports for both schools will back up my appeal nicely as the allocated one was picked up for being quite weak in mathematics whereas the preferred one is quoted as being well above standard?
Finally, I'm planning to ask the principle of the nursery if she will write a letter confirming that she feels my daughter has above average potential mathematically - I presume this will be okay? I know there are rules against asking teachers at the school you are appealing for for written support but I'm hoping it's okay when it's a teacher at their nursery / pre-school?
Thanks