;( we did not get the school - appeal?

[Boblina]

Hi everyone after debating for a year on weather I wanted to my DS to go to the catholic school or another very good school. I put down the catholic one, first choice, then the very good one as our second choice. I moved him to the catholic nursery and now he did not get in. I am so disapointed. He has been doing so well and he does really like it there. He likes it there after being unhappy at the other pre school. Well I am totally gutted. Anyone else appealed and got the school. What is the likelyhood?

What grounds would you be appealing on? Do you think a mistake has been made in the admissions criteria and that your ds should have been admitted? Very often attending the nursery attached to a school does not give you any priority for admissions. If this is a faith school, are you actually Catholic? Have you been allocated your second choice or some other school completely? I think people need more information before they can advise.

Catholic school was our first choice. We are one road outside the parish boundary. We attend church as it is our closest one and I have been going there since I was 15 when I moved into the area. MY DSs have been baptised there and everything. We did not get the second choice (the best school in the borough) We got the third choice which at the time we thought DS might be able to cope at but we have now come to realise that he would do really badly there. The school is far too big for him. He is very shy and needs a lot of encouaragement. He has finally settled in the nursery and they have just the right approach he needs.

What is the Published Admission Number for the school - is it a multiple of 30? What are the school's admissions criteria? Does being outside the parish out you in a lower priority group? Does the school give any priority to children attending the nursery (very few do)? Why does your allocation letter say your son did not get a place at the Catholic school?

By all means appeal if you want to challenge the decision but the odds will be against you. If the school admits in class sizes of 30, this will be an infant class size appeal, which means (in a nutshell) that you can win only if you can demonstrate that a serious error has been made which deprived your child of a place. Not much liking the school you've been offered is not going to carry any weight at appeal. If you're determined not to send your son to the allocated school, join other waiting lists or appeal for any other school which you'd be willing to accept.

We were criteria 4. In the past this has been ok but I assume people that there was a higher number of children applying this year. I think I shall have a word with the school and see where that gets me. I thought we had made a good impression at the school. Oh well.

I expect you're right - the places have been filled by children in categories 1 - 3. (What are they by the way? I'm guessing social/medical need, siblings and others within catchment).

Speak to the school by all means, but whether you 'made a good impression' on them isn't going to be relevant. Whether or not parents are likeable or impressive isn't part of the admissions criteria and they have to award places according to those criteria - both on initial allocation and when fresh places come up because those given places in the initial allocation have turned them down. They can't bump you up the waiting list or offer you a place because they like you and, if they did, other parents could appeal on the grounds that the admissions procedures had been improperly influenced.

I'm guessing that if the school is popular being just one road outside the parish boundary may be too far. Our local 1.5 form entry Catholic primary school could not offer places to 8 children of the parish this year, never mind Catholic children outside the parish.

Definitely don't beat yourself up about the impression you made on the school. This will have had NO bearing at all on whether you were offered a place or not, they don't get to offer based on whether they like the look of you/your child!

Agree with Panelmember and annh - being in the Catholic nursery wouldn't give you priority in most schools and the impression you make counts for nothing. All that matters is the admission criteria.

The big question is whether or not the appeal will be infant class size. If it is you should only win if a mistake has been made, e.g. your son has been placed in the wrong category. However, if it is not infant class size you will have a better chance of success.

Why is it that they only will listen if they think a mistake has been made by the admissions, why dont they listen to a childs need or a parents needs
I cant understand if there is more than 70 children on a school waiting list why they cant open another class with more teachers I know this cost more money but the need is there.
My Grandson was not given a place at any of his school choices and she has sent in an appeal for the school where he is at nursery now but today a letter has come to say they wont even listen to her appeal unless she falls into any of the three catagories they have given and her reasons dont.
she is a nanny and has to to pick up and drop off at other schools with the family she looks after and the school where my grandson goes allows her to also drop him off and pick up why should she have to give up her job because he cant get a school place also he is a shy boy who has had problem going to the loo and after a year was over coming this at the school in which he is in now another school could knock him back there are other reason other than class size and admissions mistake surely a childs welfare is more reason to listen to a parent. I really dont know where this world is going
its a very cruel system.

Don't Catholic schools usually have different criteria according to things like baptised Catholic children living in and worshipping at the parish, Baptised Catholic children outside the parish but serving in the church, Baptised Catholic children outside the Parish, baptised non Catholic children, etc etc (our local one has about 7 compared to the usual 5 for criteria like siblings and catchment area)......it is worth ringing the school to ask how many children got in in which categories, and what position you are on the waiting list. If you near the top you might even get a place between now and Sept. And just check you haven't been wrongly classified - you may have been classed as a nonCatholic! (it happened to someone else but they haven't had their appeal yet). It doesn't have anything to do with what impression you made on the school - the council/local authority allocates the places. Yes, it's very unfair for those whose home is just a few doors too far!.......but that's the current system.

Best to ring the council/local authority to see who has the figures for which numbers were admitted in which category. Sometimes the school keeps these numbers - if your council/LA website doesn't have the figures, then they should be able to tell you whether they have them or the school has them. The figures for each category are all important.

For example, if you find that there were 5 children offered places in the "other" category (which for Catholic schools is usually not baptised, not Christian, outside parish boundary) then they have made a mistake as you will clearly be higher in priority than these 5 and then it will be worth appealing. I would also expect that you will be higher priority than those who are baptised non Catholic children.

Also, as Panelmember and prh47bridge say, check the PAN (which you should be able to find out from the council during the same phone call) and whether it is infant class size too.

The last government brought in a law saying that classes in Reception, Y1 and Y2 can have a maximum of 30 children with a single teacher. There are only a few cases where classes are allowed to go over that limit legally. The only one of those that is relevant for appeals is where there has been a mistake and the child should have got a place. You may not like it but I'm afraid that is the law.

Many schools simply don't have the space to open up an additional class. Some people object to the idea that popular schools should be allowed to expand, leaving other schools half empty. Of course, the school may not want to expand and parents of children who are already there may be very unhappy to find the school putting up extra classrooms and taking in additional children.

Regarding your grandson, they must listen to an appeal regardless of the reasons. They cannot simply reject an appeal without a proper hearing. However, if it is an infant class size case you should only win if a mistake has been made (that's the three categories your daughter has been given). Typically that means your grandson has been placed in the wrong admissions category or they have measured the home to school distance incorrectly. Check to see if this may have happened and check the admission number (PAN) - that will confirm whether or not it is infant class size. If you are unsure come back here and we will advise.

The chances of a successful appeal would be better if it isn't an infant class size case but even then the difficulties you outline for your daughter's work don't make a compelling case. Appeal panels simply can't admit every child where the parent claims that it will cause them problems at work and/or mean they will have to leave their job if the child is not admitted. Schools wouldn't be able to cope with all the children.

If it is not an infant class size case and you can show that your grandson's welfare would be damaged by not being admitted to this school you would stand a reasonable chance of success at appeal. However, being shy is not a good reason for admitting a child unless you can produce expert evidence showing that your grandson is particularly badly affected and that, in the opinion of the expert, he needs to go to your preferred school. Similarly with problems going to the loo.

Unfortunately it sounds like they are saying this would be an infant class size appeal in which case you need to look for a mistake.