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Should I move Y5 DS2, 'C' bordering 'D' grade achievement- to a private?

30 replies

erebus · 01/04/2011 09:18

First point: I do not in any way, shape or form consider that 'private' necessarily implies superior. A few years on MN tells me that alone! DS1, now in Y7, cruised happily through the same school(s) and is now doing well (grade 'B'-ish) in a well regarded state secondary.

The issue is with DS2, who is 9.5. As my title says, he is very average. His maths and perhaps science are a bit better but his ability to read and write, the latter in particular, are heading towards a 'fail'. I think the primary is actually doing as good a job as they can, faced with classes of 30, albeit in middle class suburbia (the point being the school isn't riddled with the sort of issues that can inhibit learning like poor behaviour, non-school ready NS DCs, large numbers of non-native English speakers, itinerant populations, massive staff turnover).

The teacher identified him as struggling in a pre Xmas test where he scored 2a in his written work (eek!); they sent him to a one hour per week, 10 week 1:1 tutoring block, where he appears to have been taught about punctuation, use of capitals and so on... I am not sure how effective this has been, really. This is the only instance where DS2 has been 'singled out' as struggling sufficiently to need intervention but he is in that classic situation of being not 'bad' enough to qualify for ongoing help, but not 'good' enough to be sure of 'passing' English. He is also a quiet, well behaved boy so does not constitute the 'squeaky hinge' that might get the oil.

But, despite tutoring, for example, (and as another thread reveals!)- he managed to sit through what appears to have been several weeks of a 'persuasive writing' teaching topic, only to have completely failed to grasp the basic tenets! I know how it happens that one of your 30 DCs can slip beneath the radar to the extent that my (helping with homework) question: 'DS, how should you set out a persuasive letter?' (Correct answer- an introduction making your main point; 3 or 4 arguments using persuasive words (and avoiding others!); a conclusion remaking your original point'). HIS answer? "It's gotta have 'I's and 'you's in it. Or something."..

At parents evening, I look at his work in his tray, and there is page after page with what appears to be at most 2 sentences, the output of a complete lesson.

Anyway, the upshot of this is I am wondering whether I should consider moving DS2 to a small-classed independent for Y6 to try and get him 'up to speed' a bit before the freight train of secondary hits? He is happy at his primary and would rejoin his mates at the secondary, but I am thinking the one thing I think he needs is more individual attention, more 'you can do more/better than this' which I appreciate a state school teacher does not have the time to impose.

The problem is that, being leafy middle class suburbia (with the 'best' secondary in the county), the 'local' private schools all sell themselves on their academia, their getting of DCs through the entrance exams for various private secondaries, their 'getting the best out of bright but lazy DCs'. I basically want DS's present school but with 12 in a class!

Please, please understand that this isn't about private v. state in its usual MN sense. This is about whether there is any sense in me trying for smaller but more intense for DS, even though I may have to drive him further afield to find it (and pay through the nose!).

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SoupDragon · 01/04/2011 09:22

Unfortunately, if your local prvate schools are academic, your DS will not stand a chance of getting in and/or would struggle should he manage to get a place. It wouldn't be fair on him.

Have you ruled out things like dyslexia?

Jajas · 01/04/2011 09:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

meditrina · 01/04/2011 09:28

A tangential question: what is the rest of his English like? Has he been screened fir dyslexia?

Also, do you have specific alternative schools in mind, and do they actually have vacancies in his year? (Typically parents have to give a clear term's notice if they are leaving, so schools will know about September numbers by the start of the new term). The disruption of moving schools should not be underestimated. You'll need to go and look at you potential new schools and find out, not just what their English teaching is like, but also what they are doing across the curriculum to see if DS would slot in without disruption to his other subjects (eg maths). Does the school follow something like the NC (many do), or will he have to put in a lot of effort across the board to get into a very different approach?

meditrina · 01/04/2011 09:35

Oh, and something else to ask about is destination schools. Not because of your plans, but because if they school is geared up to competitive 11+ entry, this may have an impact on what they do in the autumn term (preparation for specific exams), and then a more relaxed approach after the January exams (re-arranged timetable for major drama and other co-curricular activity).

vess · 01/04/2011 10:45

I wouldn't do it if he was happy in his school - a move can only unsettle him and won't be very beneficial educationally. I'd do a proper assesment privately, so you knowexactly what his strengths and weeknesses are, and get him a tutor.

IndigoBell · 01/04/2011 10:52

Hmmmm. If 10 hours of private tuition didn't help then the question is what will help? A smaller class still isn't going to be as good as 1:1......

He'll only be at the private school for a very short time. And frequently they do things like 'let the kids settle for a term'.....

Also, they may ask you to pay for 1:1. (Which I never get. I can pay for 1:1 anytime, I don't need to go to a private school for that :) )

I think you need to talk to the private school you are considering, his current school, and a private tutor and ask them all the same hard questions. What exactly can they do for your child...... What will they do if it isn't working. How will they know if it's working......

You may find he improves dramatically not through extra tuition, but rather through an alternative therapy which is targeting the underlying cause of his learning difficulties.... But the hard thing is working out what is causing his problems in class, and then being brave enough to part with the money to cure it.

Unless you really think there is no underlying cause. He really is a C/D kid, and you would like him to be a B/C kid.......

erebus · 01/04/2011 10:56

Thanks, everyone.

There is a school I have been told about via work colleagues, and there is a bus from here (it's 6 miles away direct). I fully understand that DS2 wouldn't get into an academic prep and that it would be counter-productive to attempt to hot house him. 2 boys from his class left at the start of Y5 to go to private schools because their parents felt their DSs weren't being made to focus enough in order to reach their potential. Both DSs were getting 'B' but could be capable of 'A'. My DS is getting 'D' but could, in the right environment, get 'C'. So the private school these other boys go to (but will return to the local 'outstanding' state in Y7) wouldn't be suitable for DS2. I wouldn't be sending him to a school that preps for specific academic private secondaries, so no 11+ cramming here!

Re: dyslexia- the word has been vaguely bandied about in the past but I think his issues are more 'can't be bothered'-boy! He's reading ORT level 15 and has recently read the Zac Power books. His teacher tells me he's doing well (on target for Level 4 in KS2 SATS) in his 'comprehension' in that he understands what he reads (presumably via being questioned about content), but his ability to commit anything to the white page is letting him down. His writing is a little scruffy but so much of his spelling is phonetic, his vocab isn't huge, and, as I've said, his retention (or is it understanding??) isn't good. I readily concede that his knowledge is tested, via his 'persuasive letter writing' homework for instance but I fear the school simply don't have the time or resources to re-teach him individually when it's evident he hasn't grasped it either due to not being clever enough or because of gazing around the room when he should be paying attention (yes, there are also maturity issues!)- especially seeing as they have just committed precious funds to a 10 hour 1:1 tutor for him.

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erebus · 01/04/2011 10:57

( I typed my response after jajas so may not answer any following points! I'll read the next post now. Thanks)

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erebus · 01/04/2011 10:58

Sorry, vess s!

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erebus · 01/04/2011 11:16

Thanks, indigo

As for the tutoring 'not working', tbh, I may have jumped the gun/been unfair there in that of course I have seen little evidence. Judging by the lamentable offerings apparent in his exercise books, maybe the teacher hasn't seen much evidence either! The 1:1 only targeted how to write, as in use of punctuation, capitals, I gather. My 'moan' is that DS2 appears, after this half term's 'block' on Persuasive Writing, to only know that PW "Has gotta have 'I's and 'you's in it. Or something."..

I wonder whether DS2 might perform better in a more directed, focused atmosphere, within a smaller group? To know he'll be 'tested' or checked on his knowledge grasp at far more frequent intervals- maybe he'll apply himself a bit more. As an example, when we read together and he doesn't know a word, he'll mumble something and carry on. I have to cover the page and go 'No, hang on, let's sound that word out', to which he'll look skyward, have a stab, repeat the correct word after me with a sigh in his voice, then plough on but I will have to say 'We'll come across that word again and again in this book, I expect you to be able to say it" and only then might he have another go at committing the word to memory. As far as he's concerned it's all "Yes, yes, move on, woman!". I expect he bluffs his teacher into thinking he's grasped stuff like Persuasive letter writing- then reveals the extent of his non-grasp in a rabbit-in-the-headlights 'test' (like the homework!) failure.

Bear in mind this is the boy who can name every evolution of every Pokemon, so it's not a memory processing problem, per se!

I wonder if I should consider tutoring though I don't know how well my tired, grumpy 9 year old will do after a day at school! Admittedly I get the slouched-on-chair, lower lip jutting, head resting on hand glower many times as I attempt to help, but 10 minutes later it's all happiness and laughing with DS1 Hmm

FWIW, I do think DS2 is capable of 'C' and- sticking my neck out here- he needs to get a 'C'. His highest academic achievement may well be the Eng Bac (but perhaps without the MFL..). I suspect the EB will morph into the 'basic requirement' needed to get apprenticeships etc.

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IndigoBell · 01/04/2011 11:28

Start off with Omega Fish Oil, you never know, it might just help his concentration issues.

Tutoring will be cheaper, and lower risk....

1 hour a week of tutoring for the next year and a half should make a huge diff.

If you don't want to do it after school (which I agree with) you will have to investigate either doing it in the weekend - or during school time.

Also just talk and talk to school. Together you should be able to solve this. He's not 'too far off the pace'.

Feels to me like moving school is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut....

erebus · 01/04/2011 11:37

Again, thanks indigo. Good advice.

I may restart the Omega. The boys were both on it for a couple of years but that would have finished 2 years ago?

Ideally I would like DS tutored during school time. Whilst I am fully supportive of his school, there is a small part of me wishes it were possible to 'buy in' additional help (which I'd willingly do, but I fully recognise the inequities involved) in school and at school.

Now, how do I find a tutor??!

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FedUpWithSchools · 01/04/2011 12:16

I would seriously recommend an assessment day at a private school. They'll let you bring him in for a full day, will watch him study, check his level, see how he fits in. Then you can make a better decision if the private school is a right fit for him. I just pulled my son from a very good state school and transferred him to a private one because I believe he is capable of much more than level 4 he is at now (he is finishing year 4).

erebus · 01/04/2011 12:21

Thanks.

I think I will initially explore tutoring (Kip McGrath in the absence of knowing where else to look!).

I am still not ruling out private schooling. The one I have my eye on looks good, sounds good (and is £7000 a year), but I'm not at all sure about sending one DS but not the other as DS1 would probably benefit from a more focused learning environment, too (which child wouldn't?!), even though his secondary is very good. I can't afford to send them both!

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Jajas · 01/04/2011 12:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

erebus · 01/04/2011 13:46

Is a state school likely to tell me the name of a tutor though?

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generalhaig · 01/04/2011 14:21

there is no evidence that fish oils help concentration in any way whatsoever ... all it'll do is give your ds smelly farts and line the pockets of the vitamin companies

what are his fine motor skills like? my ds2 physically struggles with writing (hypermobility and low muscle tone) so until I kicked up a fuss and demanded that he should be taught to type and have access to a laptop for written work he'd manage one or two sentences if he was lucky - now he's able to type, the quantity of his written work has shot up (the quality was always fine)

is there a big gap between his verbal skills and ideas and his ability to put them down on paper? if so, his inability to produce work could have a physical cause in which case there are things you can do (e.g. typing) which can help

IndigoBell · 01/04/2011 14:23

Why do you say there is no evidence? Have you read all the studies that have been done?

There is loads of evidence that it helps.

wheelsonthebus · 01/04/2011 14:43

You may be surprised to find that if you ring the private school, they will recommend staff who tutor 'on the side'. Esp if you express a vague interest in the school. Alternatively, go to an open day and ask each teacher, in a quiet moment, if they privately tutor. You'd be amazed how many hand over their mobile number.

OliPolly · 01/04/2011 15:42

yes, I know someone whose DD was at prep with my DS - they pulled her out a few months ago for financial reasons but she is still being tutored once every weekly by her former teacher!

sarahfreck · 01/04/2011 16:23

It is quite possible for an able child to be fine at reading BUT STILL have dyslexia - it then shows more in poor and inconsistent spellings and in not writing as much as you feel they should be capable of and in poor punctuation ( spending so much energy on thinking about how to write the sentence that they can't focus on punctuation at the same time)

erebus - will PM you about finding tutor info!

erebus · 01/04/2011 17:01

Thanks sarah, that would be great.

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generalhaig · 01/04/2011 20:21

indigobell have a look at this www.badscience.net/category/fish-oil/

IndigoBell · 01/04/2011 21:05

Yes, bad science didn't like that trial of fish oils. Does not mean that there are no studies proving fish oils don't work. There have been an awful lot of studies on fish oils - for good reason.

Jajas · 01/04/2011 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.