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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

How do I find out if ds is dyslexic?

43 replies

LovelyDaffs · 29/03/2011 21:28

Ds is 8 in year 3 and is a lovely happy boy. We moved a while ago and his new teacher has picked up on some problems that he has with writing and spelling. Im thrilled that she's picked up on these issues and is tackling them, he has an iep and the school are using a couple of schemes with him. Dyslexia was mentioned at the last parents eve, but she said that she wasn't qualified to diagnose and that even if he were diagnosed they would follow the same plan.

I'm very happy with how school are tackling his problems, but I worry about the future.

Ds has no problems with reading and is excellent at maths. However he has a terrible memory, we can tell that he often just doesn't remember things, not the normal child forgetfulness.

We are in a grammar school area and I believe that dyslexic children are given extra time in the exams. I don't know yet if grammar school is the right place for him, but if it is and he is dyslexic then surely we ought to find out. Or will they just go on our say so?

I don't know if there are things we should be doing to help him or even if he is dyslexic as he has no problems reading.

Sorry for the ramble, But I could really do with some advice or pointing ing the right direction.

OP posts:

PonceyMcPonce · 29/03/2011 21:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

LovelyDaffs · 29/03/2011 21:52

Who or where do we go to about an assessment? Wouldn't school do this automatically?

OP posts:

PonceyMcPonce · 29/03/2011 23:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cornsilk678 · 29/03/2011 23:25

the grammar school will probably want to see a report to be able to give extra time. A SPLD teacher is the cheapest option for a private report or push the school to get someone in from the LEA to do an assessment.
'even if he were diagnosed they would follow the same plan' - not necessarily - that would depend on the nature of his difficulties. As the teacher has said she is not qualified to assess this.

sunnydelight · 30/03/2011 09:11

You used to be able to insist on an LEA assessment as a parent, but I haven't lived in the UK for a few years now so that may no longer be the case. It can also take up to a year for it to happen.

A private Ed Psych would probably be useful to you as a parent, but there is no obligation for the school to act on it and they are expensive. There is a checklist on the British Dyslexia Association's website that might be worth a look as a starting point.

As a parent of two dyslexic boys what I would stress is that, if your child is dyslexic, the sooner it is picked up the better. My experience is that self esteem really starts to suffer from around 9 if nothing is done.

IndigoBell · 30/03/2011 17:13

You don't get extra time because you are 'dyslexic', you get extra time because school (or EP) can prove you need it. If his problem is memory and not reading or writing, I don't think he would qualify for extra time.

For example you qualify for extra time if your writing speed is very slow, or if your reading speed is very slow.

However the best way to find out about this is to ring the grammar school and find out under what circumstances children get extra time for the 11+.

There are loads and loads of different types of memory. Does he have auditory memory problems, visual memory problems, working memory problems...? They require diff things to improve them.

If you pay for a private Ed Psych report they would probably tell you what kind of memory probs your child has and some recommendations about exercises that might help. They cost around £400.

Alternatively you can ask the SENCO to do the same thing.

Basically though you could very easily end up paying £400 for an Ed Psych report, but then school don't do anything different. Would you consider this a waste of money?

cornsilk678 · 30/03/2011 17:38

memory difficulties can qualify for extra time as evidence of slow processing skills - you would need to check with the grammar school

Helenagrace · 30/03/2011 20:00

My dd was assessed privately as her previous school told me she was thick and I needed to come to terms with that. Quelle surprise she is not but has mild dyslexia, some memory processing issues, dysgraphia and dyspraxia. We used Dyslexia Action for our ed psych report and I would recommend them. We explained that we thought dd might be dyspraxic and they booked us in to see a psychologist who had wider experience than dyslexia. We paid £425.

DD has 25% extra time in assessments and will be allowed to use a laptop when her typing speed improves. My understanding (from her new school) is that to qualify for additional time an ed psych report is required, especially for public exams.

Obviously I don't know which area you're in, but in my area to get an ed psych report through school you'd probably have to murder a teacher or burn the school down. A child round here with mild difficulties has as much chance of getting assessed as the moon has of persuading the sun to change shifts. I'm a school governor and the situation is frightening.

nexttime · 30/03/2011 21:21

DS is dyslexic and we paid for a private report from Dyslexia Action too. I would highly recommend a private report - the LA ed psych is less likely to dx dyslexia as they have a higher threshold and your DS might not qualify under it, as his reading and maths are good (same situation as my DS). DS has poor processing skills and working memory though and he gets extra time and use of a laptop in exams.

Agree with Helenagrace that you're very unlikely to ever get time with the LA ed psych if his numeracy/literacy are OK - each school only has a limited amount of ed psych time per term and this has to go to those with things like autism and other severe difficulties.

It's true that the school probably won't act on the recommendations on the ed psych report but it will let you know where his difficulties lie and you could pay for dyslexia tuition to support him yourself. I think it would be pointless waiting for the school to act and refer you, they just don't have the resources and your DS will likely suffer with poor self esteem in the meantime.

cupoftea1 · 31/03/2011 10:30

Hi Lovelydaffs, we too are going through a similar situation with our son (see bottom of topics page). My concerns are also for the future and how he will cope in KS2.
Yesterday, my husband phoned the LEA and spoke directly to the County's ed psych and explained our situation. He stated our concerns that although he is on an IEP and receiving extra support, we would like to have him assessed as soon as possible before his self esteem gets knocked and also to ensure that he receives the best possible help for his difficulties. (His teacher had stated that although he strongly believed that he had dyslexia, he wouldn't be assessed as it wouldn't make a difference as he was already receiving extra support and a private assessment wouldn't be accepted by the school).
The Ed Psych agreed that it was important that he was assessed as early as possible and she is going out to his school to assess him next term. His teacher does not know this yet and I dread having to explain this, as it is obvious that we have gone behind his back.
Hope that this helps and your son gets the help he needs.

IndigoBell, thank you for your support in my thread.

IndigoBell · 31/03/2011 10:47

Don't worry about going behind the teachers back.

I'm very glad (and very surprised) you managed to get the LEA EP out to assess your son.

I don't think there's anything wrong with getting an EP report - just I personally wouldn't pay for it, because have not found them to be worth the £400 they charge.

Both DS and DD had LEA EP reports done. Neither of them told us anything we didn't know, or gave any useful suggestions school weren't already doing.

And also I was never looking for a dx of dyslexia. I was looking for a way to help DD learn to read and write - whereas all I got from the EP report was a dx of dyslexia. With no further ideas on how to support her. Because school was already doing everything they should have been.

So it very much depends on your school. Are they really doing everything they should be or not? If you don't know the answer to that question, then an EP report will put your mind at rest.....

Original poster

LovelyDaffs · 31/03/2011 12:50

Thank you all for your replies. Dh and I have already decided that if he doesn't pass the grammar school exams we will send him to a private secondary as there's a good small one here that specialises in dc's with dyslexia. So, I wonder if the only reason for getting the dx is for the 11 plus if we need to get one done. I once convinced DH that DS needed his hearing tested privately (was a 12 month nhs wait) only to find out £180 later that it was fine. DH thinks I'm a bit ott.

I know for sure the school won't think he's a severe case as his reading and maths are good, but honestly his writing looks like a reception age child and he's in year 3.

OP posts:

IndigoBell · 31/03/2011 13:50

His writing looks like a reception age. Do you mean his letter formation? Or his spelling?

Helenagrace · 31/03/2011 23:28

One of the most powerful effects of us getting an EP report done was on DD. She felt relieved when a "proper professional" said she was dyslexic. She had, up until that point, felt that it was her fault that her spelling was poor and that she struggled with writing things down.

I agree that an EP report probably won't tell parents much that they don't already know but it legitimises what they know and that can be really important.

Original poster

LovelyDaffs · 01/04/2011 09:49

IndigoBell his letter formation is like a reception age child, his spelling is probably a couple of years behind.

OP posts:

IndigoBell · 01/04/2011 10:35

Ok, well letter formation being wrong is not due to dyslexia. It's due to physical problems with forming letters. ( Either visual perception problems, gross motor skills or fine motor skills )

Spelling a couple of years behind? A couple of years behind what?

I'm not really sure what causes bad spelling. I think it's poor teaching, rather than dyslexia. Has he been taught spelling well? Has he had really good synthetic phonics teaching? How do you know his spelling isn't just poor because it hasn't been taught well?

A dx of dyslexia won't help his spelling. You have to find out what will help his spelling - and help him. Or, you can decide his spelling doesn't matter, and give up on it.

maizieD · 01/04/2011 11:12

It is most likely that his spelling difficulties are a consequence of poor phonics instruction in YR/1.

If children aren't explicitly taught the connection between the sounds in words and the letters that represent them, for spelling as well as reading then they are very likely to struggle because the letter sequences in words have no significance to them. Unless a child is fortunate enough to have an excellent memory for the letter strings in a word, or have worked out the phonetics for themselves, they will always struggle with their spelling.

The poor handwriting could either be poor initial instruction or poor motor skills.

Do you know what programes the school is using for his spelling? Do you think they are helping to improve it?

I agree that a diagnosis of dyslexia can have a profound psychological efect. I also know that some children use it as an excuse for poor work... But as IB says, a diagnosis is of little practical value if the support the child gets is ineffective.

Original poster

LovelyDaffs · 01/04/2011 20:01

Ah thanks, that's all interesting. It's hard to say if he was poorly taught, dd2 had the same teachers in reception and year one just a year before and she has no problems - but he's a different person, so who knows.

He's doing toe by toe and something else called PAT, not sure what it stands for. Toe by toe looks good from what I can see on the net, but I don't know anyone with any authority in this area to ask about it.

He still mirrors some of his letters including his initials I'd have hoped that would have passed by 8. It is difficult because he's the youngest of three and his two sisters are very bright, so I can't help compare especially with dd2 who is so close in age.

OP posts:

cornsilkily · 01/04/2011 21:09

toe by toe is good - how often is he doing it each week?
PAT is phonological awareness training
who is he doing these with?

IndigoBell · 01/04/2011 21:12

Sounds like your school are doing exactly what they should for him. Honestly a dyslexia dx won't bring you any more support than that. Toe by toe and PAT are the right things for him.

He really should learn to spell using those schemes....

maizieD · 01/04/2011 21:28

Hmm. I'm not sure about PAT. Do you know exactly what it consists of?

I used a programme called PAT several years ago. It was basically (that looks very wrong) 'word endings' (such as ..ake, ...eat, ...ant etc.) to which the pupil added initial consonants in order to make words, then spelled some of them 'unseen'. It was just about useless. I hope the PAT you are talking about isn't the same one.

Toe by Toe is very dry and many children find it very boring. I think many schools use it because you don't need any training to deliver it. I'm afrraid, IB, that it won't help with spelling; it's a reading programme only.

If he doesn't show improvement, all is not lost as these are not the only remedial programmes in the world!

cornsilkily · 01/04/2011 22:13

PAT/toe by toe are fine if delivered by a teacher qualified to assess that they are suitable for the child's specific needs. If they are just plucked out of the air or used because it happens to be what the school have then not so good.

mrz · 01/04/2011 22:16

I'm with Maizie on the deadly dull nature of Toe by Toe

cornsilkily · 01/04/2011 22:16

well it's dull but it's only meant to be delivered for a few minutes a time

cornsilkily · 01/04/2011 22:29

also a specialist dyslexia teacher is highly unlikely to stick rigidly to one scheme such as toe by toe, although they may dip into it when appropriate. They will deliver a bespoke learning programme specifically tailored to the child's needs -which is why I wondered who was delivering the interventions.

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