Has obsession with phonics done my DD a disservice?

[teenyweenytadpole]

DD is in Y2 but is young for her year. She is struggling with spelling at the moment - she writes loads but it is all spelled phonetically e.g "wos" for "was". She can write pages and pages of lovely imaginative stuff but none of it is spelled correctly! Her teacher has asked me to focus on her learning her key words rather than worry about her other homework. I am fine with this but it struck me that this over emphasis on phonics has left her struggling with all the many words that can't be spelled phonically. Any tips for helping her other than basically just learning off by heart which is a bit boring really?

If she is spelling was as wos either she hasn't been taught or she hasn't learnt that "a" following a /w/ can represent /o/ as in was and want and watch and wand and wasp and what ... I would teach it in reception but it should be taught by Y1 at the latest.
I would suggest rather than an over emphasis on phonics there hasn't been enough emphasis on teaching the alternative ways sounds can be written.

Hmm, well that's interesting, thanks. That was just an example really, she spells almost everything out just as it sounds (now of course I can't think of any other examples!). She reads pretty well although is not yet reading independently whereas her sister was at this age. Any suggestions for helping her - are there are any websites or anything which cover the letter sounds?

Isn't it about reading more with her though? DS (yr 1) has picked up his spelling knowledge thorugh familiarity with reading the words and remembering what they are and how he should spell them. That's how we learn exceptions to phonetic rules rather than being taught a long list of other rules. With the english language you'd be learning rules forever!

I'd read as much as posisble to her, asking her to follow the words on the page as you read them and also getting her to read to you as much as posisble. not just books but recipes, instructions, signs etc. The more she see the words the more likely she'll remember how she should spell them.

I would have to agree with mrz, my dd is in reception and she knows that 'was' is spelt like that and when were are reading says things like 'wh-question word high five' so it isnt wh-at but whot etc.

This hasnt transfered to all words yet just high frequency word, she will still write that she wotrrd the plant for example.

Can you break down the list of words she has to learn and tackle it in chunks?

It's perfectly acceptable for Y2 children to spell some words as they sound (age appropriate they are still learning) although words like was and said should be correct.
www.phonicsplay.co.uk/PrintableResources.htm

www.phonicsinternational.com/

YANBU.Phonics can only take them so far.

I would agree with mrz that it's not that phonics has done her a disservice. Phonics is the basis of English spelling and the logical way to learn how to read most words. It's just that you need to consider all the possibilities within phonics, and then the (many) exceptions too.

One thing that has worked for me is, when reading, to draw attention to and make a game out of words that are spelt very differently from how they sound. This wasn't really my idea but something my daughter did spontaneously. For example, when we were reading and I got her to read a passage to me, if she encountered the word "when", she'd actually say: "W - H - EN", and laugh. Then I'd have to act upset and insist she do it properly, and she'd keep doing it wrong to wind me up.

I didn't really think that much about it at the time. But then later, when she started writing words like that, she automatically knew how to spell them because she just did it the way she spoke them when we were playing!

Dd is in senior infants which is equivalent to y1. Since halloween they're been getting 4 spellings to learn each week and do a spelling test on fridays. All the words are high frequency words and most are none phonetic. It's had a noticeable effect on her reading and writing as she's become comfortable with a lot of these words which can't be reliably sounded out.

Maybe a similar approach would help your dd? Some kids do learn better with memorising the words

Nearly all children who try to write independently when still quite young spell phonically. They often become less keen on writing if teachers over-emphasize the 'correctness' of spelling.

Copious reading helps with learning to spell most of all, because just over half of all English words (around 3700 common ones) contain one or more tricky letters (who, when, young...).
U can see the main English spellings, with their main and other exceptions to them at englishspellingproblems.blogspot.com/2009/12/rules-and-exceptions-of-english.html and the main pronunciation for English spellings with alternatives at
englishspellingproblems.blogspot.com/2009/12/reading-problems.html
They show what basic English phonics consists of and what children have to learn beyond phonics.

Those articles are interesting, but they concern the graphemes of English, not the phonics. it would have been impossible for her to write such a concise guide had she not been using a phoneme-based system as its backbone.

For helping with learning to read and write, u might find it helpful to be aware of the 100 most used English words which make up nearly half of everything that children read.

They are listed in order of frequency, but I have separated them into the 57 which are compeletely decodable and have entirely regular spellings
a, and, in, is, it, that,
as, at, but, for, had, him, his, not, on, so, they, with, about, an, back, been, big, came, can, did, first, from, get, go, has, her, here, if, just, like, little, made, make, much, must, no, new, off, or, our, out, over, see, them, then, this, up, well, went, will, old.

and the 43 with some tricky letters:
^he, I, of, the, to, was,
all, be, are, have, one, said, we, you, by, my, call, before, come, could, do, down, into, look, me, more, now, only, other, right, she, some, their, there, two, when, want, were, what, where, which, who, your.^

Taking another look at those words makes me realise that the first 57 are all decodable, but not entirely free from tricky spellings:

they (play), been (bean), see (sea), here (hear), first, her (fern, heard).

I'm certainly no expert, but have read/heard that this phonetic spelling phase - ie experimenting with sounds but often picking the wrong one - is actually a really important phase in learning. It's much better than just memorising each individual word.

Eventually she will know which phoneme to use where but at least she is trying, you say she writes prolifically - I'm sure that's better than only writing a paragraph because she is too scared of getting it wrong.

As Mashabell says, "Nearly all children who try to write independently when still quite young spell phonically. They often become less keen on writing if teachers over-emphasize the 'correctness' of spelling."

You could just wait and see whether the problem resolves itself as she reads more. For many children, extensive reading alone will instill good spelling: they learn the spelling of specific words and also absorb an unconscious understanding of the ways in which words can be spelt. Considering that many children don't enjoy spelling and may be put off writing if there is an overemphasis on spelling, waiting is much easier than tackling the problem directly.

I was an early reader and already an excellent speller by the time I reached school, so I never needed any instruction in spelling. My older daughter read much later - she became fluent around her ninth birthday - and has never had any instruction in spelling either. Her spelling accuracy has skyrocketed as she has got more books under her belt.

I do know people who read quite a lot and haven't simply absorbed spelling through reading. But if your daughter turns out to be such a child, you could just tackle the spelling issue later when it has become apparent that it is an area which causes her particular trouble.

Would she spot errors if she read her work? This used to work pretty well with my dd.

Hi all thanks some great ideas here. Her teacher has given us a set of cards with the high frequency words on and we are working through those, she can spell all the ones that can be spelled phonetically like "jump" especially if I sound out the letters really clearly when I say the word aloud. Now we are moving onto the more tricky ones. They also have words to learn each week for spelling test but the teacher has suggested not worrying about those so much until she has the high frequency ones learnt. She did a reading assessment this week and her teacher said she reads well, she can recognise the majority of the words and read them with no problems but if she is asked to spell them she still tends to approach it phonetically. I think more reading would definitely help but she is not that keen on reading per se, although she does love books and being read to, she will happily listen to books like the Little House series, Harry Potter, What Katy Did etc. The Oxford reading ones from school, she will read but only because she has to IYSWIM. I have offered her the books aimed at her age like the dreaded fairy books and the "lost kitten in the snow" type stuff which her sister loved at this age but she says they are boring! She is a very young Y2 (August birthday) and so I think she really "ought" to still be doing Y1 work but there is a certain amount of pressure (subtly applied!) by her teacher (who is lovely, no problems with her) to get her ready for the "big move" to Juniors. She is in a very small village school so there are two mixed age classes (infants and juniors) and the transition from one to the other feels like quite a big step. Anyway thanks all for the input and MrsZ for those websites which I will check out.

we have all the KS1 words on magnets on the fridge, including the tricky ones.

Maybe some flash cards which you could make up yourself?