Teaching Advice Please - re Child not fulfilling potential???

[rockinhippy]

Hi all,

I wonder if any of you can advise on the following....

sorry if its long winded, trying to put as much info in as possible & not feeling too well myself so my concentration is a bit out to lunch

DD has always been very bright, always been very motivated with learning, loves School, though can be a bit of a perfectionist & can be quite hard on herself at times (commented on by Teachers in the past too) & we've been told G&T level in previous years, though as she's still young & one of the eldest in class, though thats not something I put much too store on just yet, not a "pushy Mum" believe that School should be fun too - which it is for her - that so long as she is doing well, with room to drop back a bit (sensible with her health issues) then theres nothing too much to worry about - but just not so sure now

She has in previous years had health issues that have meant she's missed a lot of School, or been there when feeling her best, especially last year when her problems were aggravated by stress, despite this she's more than managed to keep up,

in reception class after a stay in hospital, she was lagging slightly in her writing, the Teachers thought that it was a confidence issue brought about by her missing that particular chunk of School when the others where getting to grips with it all, despite this over all she was in the top 95%, which was probably the last time I had a proper figure to gauge her progress against, as its changed in other years, & though she DID catch up & more so with her writing skills its been Teachers word & the lettering system, if that makes sense.

This year I've felt she was falling back, comments she's made as regards her friends progress etc, spelling errors on things she could of done in the past - rushed writing - not sounding out words etc - though she still reads beautifully & seemingly well above her years, she needs a push to re read a word she has skipped over & guessed wrongly at & has worried me a bit lately as she seems to be wanting to go back to reading level books from year 1 & 2 & not challenge herself in the way she used to want to- year 1 she was competently reading Harry Potter, with very little help - because she WANTED too

Talking to her more ( & it can be hard to get her to open up without putting words in her mouth) she tells me that SHE feels she's not doing as well as her friends with writing/spelling & is embarrassed by it & that they often take the Mickey if she asks them for help with spelling etc, telling her "oh you are always asking" I've tried to explain that she should use the dictionary, as that way she will learn it for herself & avoid the embarrassment of asking her friends & that they may not be right anyway - she then owns up that its easier to ask her friends - she can have a bit of a lazy streak at times, but I've never seen it with her learning before

I've sat with her at home & gone through the class spelling lists & when pushed to stop & think about it rather than just say the first thing that comes into her head, 9/10 she gets it, so she does know a lot of it - I've encouraged her to jot the word down on a scrap of paper before saying it, or using it in her writing as the she's very creative, & as a creative myself I know that we tend to think more visually, she agreed this helps a lot as she instantly knows when she's written it wrong --

the other thing she has owned up to is what after several goes turned out to be "daydreaming" -- in that when doing group work, where she has to write a piece on her own whilst sat with her group - she drifts off & then suddenly time is nearly up & she panics & scrawls down far less than she's capable of - this came out as a result of her worrying that the during her pre parent evening 1-1 with her teacher, Teacher commenting on her needing to use more descriptive language in her writing - her vocabulary is WAY beyond her years & she is always very descriptive verbally & is very descriptive with things she writes at home - so I was very puzzled by this - she also owned up to avoiding using words she might not be able to spell so easily .....

I've also got her making paintings of difficult spellings with visual clues, in the hope that will give her an image to recall to help her remember.

What concerns me is that having spoken with her Teacher, I don't feel its been taken that seriously simply because she is in the Top work group

her Teacher is lovely, but I did find it hard to get to listen, finishing my sentences, pre-empting what I was saying etc, she seemed insistent on it being DD being hard on herself & making excuses for her day dreaming - ie "Oh she thinking about what to write" - er no, she's owned up to wandering off completely & forgetting all about her work - I'm pretty bolshy when needs be, but felt the only way to really get through was to start slamming fists & demanding she listened - which I didn't want to do in front of DD as don't feel it would be sending out a good message, & she is lovely & genuinely seemed to mean well, so I didn't want to be stroppy with her - she does have a different way of teaching to other years, which she owned up to, in that the class is streamed, but the Children don't know that as she feels its kinder to those that struggle more -

I can understand that, but she saw that as DDs problem, her being competitive & not knowing she was top group - which isn' true either & DD being hard on herself, which can be true, but I don't think so this time - if I'm honest after speaking with DD I actually think she might benefit from sitting at a lower group, where she HAS to use her dictionary & not just ask her friends whom she trusts will know, but I don't think that will solve the daydreaming ---- surely that is something a Teacher needs to be on top of, even if a child is already above average????

I did mention DDs creativity & playing to her visual memory, to which Teacher suggested to DD using a picture system them have - DD tells me this has happened once since my chat a few weeks back - I had hoped to follow this all up at parents evening, but due to my struggling health wise I got in a muddle with the dates, & when I remembered & spoke with her about appointments I was told I was too late & she was fully booked up -

she did suggest that I could chat with her any time as previously, but I was looking forward to having DDs work in front of me with examples in order to get my point across - also DD will have a new Teacher next term, so thinking I might actually gain more talking to them instead??

Am I right to be concerned??- surely just because a Child is above required level doesn't mean they should be left to get on with it & problems not taken seriously??

Is there anything more that can be suggested I can do with her at home?? as I fear her confidence is taking a bit of a bashing, which I worry in turn may well affect her health again

& if you are still following me .....

Advice appreciated - Thank you :)

How much of a problem is her daydreaming? Is it a problem at home as well?

In very extreme cases daydreaming is a symptom of ADHD Predominantly Inattentive

One thing to do for daydreaming is try her on Omega Fish Oils. If they make a diff, than that was the problem ( Otherwise you can stop using them.)

Ignore me if you don't think the daydreaming is the fundamental problem :)

Thanks Indigo :)

her daydreaming has never been a problem until this year (now yr 3) though she's always been a bit hyperactive, I wouldn't say ADHD, not even close (we know Children with this problem) - she actually got quite excite describing what she thinks about - goes off into a real exciting little dream world - shame she's not writing it down really - I wouldn't need to worry - lol

she doesn't generally have concentration problems as such, at least not if she's properly engaged, though she seems to be struggling this year if left to her own - she also eats a lot of fish, due to us being pescetarian & I do supplement with omegas & other stuff too around times when he stomach problems flare up & she never has chemical additives - which amongst other things DO send her loopy - scarily so & don't doubt we'd be looking at ADHD if I hadn't sussed out her sensitivities when tiny - but I'm pretty sure thats not her problem now - I just think her build - long, lean & whippet like makes her a bit hyper at times....might sound daft but I've noticed it amongst her friends & our friends Kids who are similarly built

Okay there's a ton of information in your post! What do you think the biggest problem is?

Your DD is not achieving things as quickly as she used to?
She doesn't seem engaged by the teacher?
She seems to have lost interest in her work?

IME it's normal for children to plateau, even to want to return to 'easy' books, and it's especially noticeable in children who've been high achievers up until that point. Bringing in comparisons to friends/other children in the class isn't always accurate as those children may only be flourishing now and going through a phase of rapid knowledge expansion at a different time to your DD.

Not being engaged by the teacher is a problem. I'd be disinclined to accept the teacher's explanation of 'she's thinking what to write' too and encourage the teacher to keep DD on track. Explain that daydreaming is an issue and one you'd like to nip in the bud and you'd really appreciate the teacher giving her a little extra help to stay focused.

If she's lost interest in her work is that just at school or at home as well?

I think perhaps she's been accustomed to being ahead and when she isn't she plays it safe - which ties in with what you say about perfectionish tendencies and being hard on herself. What you can do is identify areas she's lacking in self-confidence e.g. spelling and work with her to bring her back up to where she feels she should be, not where the teacher feels she should be.

Thank You SFAP

What you say as regards your experience & that is "normal for children to plateau" is very reassuring - thank you:)

& I think you hit the nail right on the head with your last paragraph & perfectionist tendencies & her playing safe, thats been my instinctive feelings on it too, but not quite sure how to get her over it & she seems a bit "stuck" ATM & I'm worried about pushing her & putting her off even more & making things worse

She's partly lost interest at home too, its sometimes very difficult to motivate her into doing projects at home, even crafty stuff that fits with her curriculum, which she used to love doing & then taking into School for show & tell - now she often has a bit of an attitude of "I've done my work for the day & now its chill out time" which I suppose I've just put down to age -

though at other times she's still very motivated & easy to engage, & she also takes great pleasure in writing us long notes over simple things she wants/has noticed :) - ie: "I've just used the last toilet roll, can you please remember to buy some more, the nice soft white kind" so descriptive, beautifully written & motivated - so she CAN do it, its definitely harder than it used to be to get her to try

I think my biggest worry is her not being engaged & getting her head down & been too easily distracted when working with English on her own ...

with other subjects & paying attention to the Teacher - she's still fine - at least DD thinks she is, so isn't beating herself up over it, & teacher agrees she's fine with Maths etc - though Teacher doesn't see any problem with her English either, so I'm taking DDs word for it over Teachers, as theres obviously is a problem with English, just not in the Teachers eyes

& She IS still very motivated & interested with School & lessons in general AT SCHOOL, just sadly seems to have lost confidence with English & now I'm reading this back & your reply I'm realising she might be dealing with that with day dreaming :( -

though I remember been a daydreamer at School too, but older & out of boredom

& thanks for your comments re her Teacher, its given me the confidence & the phrasing (thanks) for speaking with them again & pushing for her daydreaming to be picked up on & addressed, I just wasn't sure in the light of large class & DD still being way ahead if I was just expecting too much - thanks :)

Her new term Teacher, will actually be an old Teacher, if that makes sense, & she has apparently already commented on DDs writing not been as neat as it was last year - DD was upset by this, but it gives me some hope that next term will improve & I have now decided I will speak with new Teacher instead, as it makes more sense

Thanks again

Daydreaming is a bad habit to fall into - hopefully the teacher will recognise that and gently support DD in focusing on her work, especially if you agree on a strategy where DD has a certain amount of time to think what to write but then needs to actually start writing. It's important to emphasise (and really the teacher should know this) a balance between planning/reflection, which is good, and actually producing work!

Maybe you can encourage DD to take (safe, supervised) risks in other areas to build up her confidence as well as working on the basics and getting those correct? It sounds like she's very worried about getting things wrong, which is fine in moderation, but she might develop into overcautiousness, if it hasnt' already. Showing her that she can succeed in unexpected things, but also take a chance and fail safely, should have a knock on effect and make her more willing to try things out in general, and therefore in English at school.

The bolshy attitude there isn't much you can do to solve unfortunately!

Good luck with it all :)

Thank you :) -

you've been a BIG help

Dd2 (Yr 2) read the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe in year R and all the Little House books last year. (Tried Harry Potter and didn't like it)She still happily reads Rainbow fairies and Horrid Henry this year.
Sometimes she enjoys a book with more interest, and other times she likes an easy book she can read in 10 minutes.
I don't see it as an issue, as long as she's enjoying reading.
She does tend to daydream too, but her spellings have suddenly taken a leap and she's gone from making silly mistakes on words she knows to spelling words that I've got wrong
I have noticed on her maths she tends to loose interest and guess when it's easy. eg today she was doing a problem that used (56 divided by 7) -1. She worked out that was what she had to do. Said 56 divided by 7 was 8 with very little thought.... and 8 take away 1 was 6.
You could see in her eyes that when she'd got to the last bit she wasn't concentrating as it was easy. LOL.

We have had exactly the same problem. DC extremely bright, capable but very lazy and couldnt be bothered, and we have had this for a few years now. Spends 25 minutes thinking about what to write and spends 5 minutes writing by which time lesson is over. My kids always seem to have been ignored because they are not in the "need attention" spectrum. This term, a different teacher, a different approach and a new child is evolving.

Teacher involvement, interest and support can make a huge huge difference and I am looking forward to seeing great progress.

No you're right DeWE, its not an issue so long as they are enjoying reading etc etc & I WOULD take the same approach so long as she's up to target & in her case a bit beyond to cover any future absence/struggles because of her ongoing health problems -

but its DD herself who is worrying about her writing/spelling etc, but has owned up to panicking when suddenly she comes round from her day dream & realises times almost up & then its a mad scrawl - so on paper at least it looks like she's not doing so well - she should be doing at least as well as she was, more so down to the fact she's missed so little school this year, but she feels the others in her group are over taking her & its affecting her confidence badly:(

Funny though, in yr2 I could of written the same as regards DDs math as yourself :), she liked to challenge herself especially with Maths & didn't try so hard with easy stuff - thankfully her year 2 teachers seemed to recognise that so she didn't get bored

Thanks RoadArt I somehow missed your post, I think you must of posted whilst I was typing DeWes reply

I can relate to what you say there a lot, DD does have a bit of a lazy streak at home, quite a big one if I'm honest & she needs a lot of pushing to do things around the house etc & is very easily distracted & though she's very keen to please & has worked hard at School, I don't doubt thats a lot to do with her previous Teachers methods -

talking with this years Teacher, lovely as she is, I did get the feeling she favours the ones that need more help - for example no streaming in her class that the Kids actually know about, as she doesn't like the slow learners to feel inadequate, which is a lovely idea & I'm sure if I was Mum to a Child that end of the spectrum I'd be happy with that, but as a result DD didn't realise she was still in the top group, & as she is usually very competitive,

so I think the streaming has actually made her work harder, & suspect now that she thinks its not part of class anymore, she doesn't feel she has a place to keep up with, if that makes sense & also I suspect her group doesn't get the Teachers attention the way it used to, certainly sounds that way from what DD herself has said & the Teacher seemed more kind natured & less strict when I've spoken with her - more inclined to make excuses for the kids, if that makes sense - but then again there are less Teachers & more Kids in yr3, so its got to be harder for her

so like I say I can relate a LOT to your post & I'm of the mind that could be a big part of the problem, its going to be interesting to see how things change in the new term with a different Teacher,