Should year 3 children be able to work out percentages?

[melpomene]

Should a year 3 child know about percentages, eg should they be able to convert 19/30 to a percentage?

DD's maths homework:

a table showing the scores that ten (fictional) children got in a maths test and spelling test. The maths scores are out of 20 while the spelling scores are out of 30. For example, Rachel scored 15 for maths and 22 for spelling; Anna scored 13 for maths and 21 for spelling.

DD then had to work out whether it was true that the girls did better in the spelling test than the maths test. As far as I can see, the only way to do this is to convert all of the scores to percentages. eg in order to compare 15/20 and 22/30 you need to convert the scores to percentages. But it seems a lot to ask of a 7yo to convert 20 scores to percentages and then compare and collate the results. DD is a bit below average at maths and said that she has not been taught percentages.

I ended up explaining to her about percentages and then working them out for her so that she could compare the scores.

Would you expect a year 3 pupil to calculate percentages unaided? Or is there another way of approaching the problem, that Im missing?

Have they been working on lowest common denominators? LCM of 20 and 30 is 60. So all the scores would be fractions e.g. 45/60ths and 44/60ths (for Rachel's scores)

Working out percentages would seem very advanced work for year 3. Certainly only something for the well above average.

I would think that they would have been expected to work out the totals for all the girls, and then, for comparison, divide the maths total by 20 and the spelling total by 30.

I think it would be as hocuspontas says - working out percentages for thirtyeths (is that a word?) seems a bit much comparing by working out equivalent fractions seems reasonable.

If it is for the girls as a whole then I presume they works add up all rhe scores and then multiply by 3 for the maths and then by 2 for the spellings.

Yes, converting to marks out of 60 does sound easier than converting to percentages; I hadn't thought of that (and nor did dd!), thanks.

The thing about adding up the totals and working out an average score is that that approach won't necessarily tell you whether most girls did better in spelling, which is what the question is asking. You could have five girls who did just slightly better in spelling, and one girl who did massively better in maths which would skew the average. For the figures we've been given, if you look at the averages then the girls' average maths score is higher, but if you look at the scores of each girl individually then 3 were better at maths and 3 were better at spelling.

my son is yr 3 and on top table for maths. I don't think he could do that sum without lots of parental input

To me, it looks like a misprint - I would only be expecting my able year 5s to work out equivalent fractions, and certainly not converting 30ths to a percentage. For year 3, I'd expect both sets of scores to be out of the same total so they could add up the scores or compare each one and work it out that way. it might be worth asking the teacher if they were meant to be out of different totals - teachers are only human, and one mistyped number could have sent a whole class of parents and children into a spin.

Yes I agree, I would bet that was a mistake. Just working out what to do then adding them up/ comparing them would be about right for year 3!

It sounds more like a fractions question.
DD2 is in yr3 and their group have just started to learn about lowest common denominators and comparing fractions. Definitely not percentages though.

Regardless of how they are SUPPOSED to be working out the answer, there is an easy way to show and compare the numbers visually, which may be easier for your child to work out.
Draw two lines the same length e.g. 60cm one directly below the other.
Split the first line into 20 sections and the second line into 30 sections.
Now it is very easy to see if, say, 20/30 is bigger or smaller than 16/20.

YY you need to give them all common denominators, ie ??/60. Then you can compare the fractions.

My DD who is in yr 5 deffo knows how to do this; not sure about DS2 (yr 3) but maybe.

Common denominators. Remember DS doing something similar.

Mind you, sometimes it's hard to work out what they're after.

I taught DS how to do simultaneous equations the other day because I assumed that was how he was supposed to do his homework. It wasn't. God alone knows what his teacher though of me . Anyway - we got it right!

Dd2 is in Y3 and is good at maths. She cannot do percentages yet, and only has a basic understanding of fractions eg. Colouring in 3/4 of a square, but not finding 3/4 of 32.

My Yr 6 group would struggle with this! Hope it's a misprint. It's a v difficult problem and not really appropriate for Yr 3 imo!

www.wiganschoolsonline.net/curriculum/maths/docs/Planning/Progression_Charts/FDPRP/Progression%20chart%20FDPRP-%20Y3-Y7.pdf

% are Y5

Certainly not. More like able y5 or y6.

Not that question. My dd did seem to do 10%/25/50/75/5% in Y3 as did the top half of her class but that was as far as it went.

% are not in the y3 curriculum.

My year 3 dd wo is good at maths has it as a target for next year.