Sensitive subject ( LONG)

[marmon]

My husband and i made an appointment yesterday to see our ds teacher, he is in year 3 and absolutely hating it. He is such a bright spark but lately he seems very low and is complaining about school and how horrible some of the children are and hes struggling with work etc..
So as we arrive i see my ds has been with the head, hes a new headteacher who does not acknowledge you in anyway,infact he ignores you which i find weird for the face of the school but there you go. Anyway my ds teacher said my son had passed a racist commnent, which immediately shocked me as my ds has never been exposed to racism. So when i asked she said he had called a little pakistani girl "black". When i asked my ds he said the conservation happended before half term and they were talking about skin colour and it sounds like my ds just stated the bleedin obvious to this girl about her skin colour. The little girl then turned round to my son and said "well if you lived in my country(i.e Pakistan) you would be the odd one out HA".
My ds never told the headteacher this as he had forgotten about it, as i said the conversation was before half term but apparantly the girls mum has gone in and complained. I know hes my son but i really dont think hes being racist, infact can you imagine if my son had said to this girl "in my country your the odd one out", there would be chaos. What shall i do? Shall i see head and explain whole story? Im thinking of moving my son anyway for other reasons but this just seems silly. Luckily his teacher does not think hes being racist just being a child and saying what he sees. I just feel the education system has gone mad. Since day one my ds has been treated so diffferently to what my dd was, boys now are most definately not allowed to be boys anymore. Help?

If I read your post right:
Your son made a comment
It was taken as racist by the girl's mum
t was however, made in the context of the lesson he'd had on race.
Your son's head has spoken to him.
Your son's teacher stated she didn't think it was racist.

Has the Head punished/accused your son?

It doesn't sound like he has and it may be that talking to your son was just part of the investigation done. I wouldn't personally do anything as it looks to me like the school is supporting your son.

If action is taken against your son, then I would start kicking up hell as it doesn't sound racist to me either

it might be worth having a chat with DS about why this might have been misunderstood by the girl and why she reacted like she did.

I believe she was talking to another child about skin colour and said something about some people having red skin and my ds just chipped in and said "yeah you have black skin". From what the teacher said and when i questioned my ds this little girl has trouble making friends as she gets aggressive with the other children, infact my ds has a carpet burn on his back where she tripped him over in the week! So whether or not her actions are to do with what goes on at home and attitudes to race i do not know.
I suppose the head has to talk to my ds, which is fair enough but he did mention my ds comment as being racist, which really shocked my son and me to be honest.

All incidents of possible or perceived racism have to be dealt with in schools. Sounds like it was handled sensibly.

But is saying to a child "in my country because your white you would be the odd one out" and this by the sounds of it was said with malicious intent, is that not racist? Im just confused that my ds says something, which i agree he has to be spoken to about, but it doesnt work the other way. Geez if my ds had said this to her well there would be merry hell!

The definition of racism is prejudice thinking with the power to affect the other party as a result of the prejudice. Eg, bullying, not employing someone, not allowing someone to rent a home.

Her comment does not sound like racism to me. It is probably factually correct!! However, it sounds like its roots are in her (and her family's) defensiveness towards racist behaviour. Which I can understand.

It sounds like your son has copped flak for something he has absolutely no idea about.

Just to add, potentially your son's position is one of racism because, being in the ethnic majority, he could instigate bullying within the whites against her. She could not do the same as she is the minority. That is where the subtle difference lays.

(i'm not saying he would, you understand )

To me it sounds like your child made a basic observation - that her skin was a different. She made another basic comment (that yes her's was different to her peers here and she was the "odd one out") but he would be the odd one out in a different country. No harm done. Some(ethnic) parents do get stressed about comments being racial bullying, when they are young children's simple statements of fact, so we do have to talk to the children about it. I have had it recently and used it to talk about how some comments can be perceived as hurtful. The usual course of action from a complaint is to investigate (in other words HT or DHT have a chat with children involved to try to unpick what actually happened and was meant by it.) Head can then say that to concerned parent. If the head had been worried by it they would have asked to see you.

i though the word "black" was the prefered word in schools its PC isnt it, it sounded from what youve said it was the child herself whos remark that "if you were in my country you would be the odd one out haha" is the more derogitory remark? sounds like a learned expression from her family and to me was a completely inocent obsevation on your DS's part and that her parents as Abigale has said have listened to her and taken it out of context, i would let them know you are in no way a racist family and the comment was totally inocent and that your actually offended to be accused of such an unthinkable wrong (how old are the Dcs btw?) my son in primary would never think of people in terms of race just if he was discribing a boy he sat next to or talked to in playground would say hes brown or got funny eyes ( meaning oriental) it isnt racist its their way of describing rather than sayon the boy with black hair and glasses iyswim

Thnking about it - isn't black an odd way to describe a pakistani's skin colour? I would've expected a child to say brown. Maybe that was what she didn't like?

could be as she may think of herself as brown and people of african/carribean origin as black but regardless it sounded inocent to me

It isnt odd to describe a pakistani skin colour as black, i mean its political correctness that has sent this country completely to the dogs, its insane. And in my experience all" coloured" people as we used to call them, want to be called black. Geez if we want to get picky about it i would rather be could pink as my skin is not in the least bit "white", but i dont take offence if someone calls me white!
MADABOUTHEBOY2000 my ds is 7 and not in the least bit racist, just a normal little guy, who cant speak, cant play cops and robbers, infact cant do anything without being perceived as some sort of racist gangster!!!And yes i agree the little girls comment was far more offensive and insulting but for me to complain would no doubt be opening up a can of worms. Sorry if ive upset animal rights people by referring to worms being kept in cans!!!

Its a learning curve for your son, of course he didnt mean anything by it but part of growing up is learning about how others percieve the things we say and that there is a need to be sensitive around certain subjects. I'm sure you have nothing against with your son learning those things?

But I wonder what you meant by "my ds is 7 and not in the least bit racist, just a normal little guy, who cant speak, cant play cops and robbers, infact cant do anything without being perceived as some sort of racist gangster!!!"?

Is that rant based on this one incident? If so then I'd say you need to look at why you are so defensive.

I don't think either of the children's comments was racist, in intent.

The part that sounds upsetting to me is not anything the children said, but the fact that the Head is not perceived to be friendly or approachable, and the fact that the OP feels her son is not 'allowed to be a boy'. I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds upsetting.

Perhaps separating out the Big Issues from this incident would help, marmon?

Because since he has been at school i have found the way boys are treated so massively different. My dd is 13 and never had the difficulties my ds has faced. I know they are two different personalties etc.. But luckily im not alone in my thinking and alot of mums of boys feel the same and we are supportive of each other. When he was at infant school and tried to play various "boy" games we were hauled over about it and said it encouraged bad behaviour. One such pretend game springs to mind when they were 5 years old, they liked to play a make believe skateboarding game and they used to act out spraying graffiti, pretend cans by the way. And this was seen as outrageous and was banned. It was a GAME they were using their imaginations, none of them are vandals as far as i know. You know i could go on but my fingers would be sore, maybe im wrong and if i am well that makes me sad that innocent games and remarks are now filling our kids with fear. And on Friday when i expressed to my ds teacher that the education system is a mess, she agreed and said that it needs a major overhaul and rethink!

That does sound sad, re the game being banned. Pretend spray cans don't sound any worse than the pretend guns nearly all little boys play with.

I'm not sure its the Education System, or just the school, or just individuals within that school...but its a shame, and potentially damaging.

Your ds's teacher sounds okay though, at least!

Trouble is Elibean hes now at Junior school and it just seems a continuation of the last school, dont get me wrong my ds has his faults and im aware of them but im guessing the negative start he had to school has spilled over, plus the problems he had at infant school have been reported to his current school and im just wondering whether hes been "branded" as naughty! When i asked his teacher this she was quite honest and said that certain children are on the radar and monitored closely because of previous problems but she did my say my ds was generally well behaved and not disruptive in class, just prone to not concentrating. But i have to say i do have my doubts.

Hard to say, I should think - maybe over time it will become more apparent as to whether its just the Head's way, or whether your ds specifically has been 'branded'. What the teacher says doesn't sound too alarming to me, tbh, as it seems pretty normal to me for the bouncier kids to be under a watchful eye at dd's school!

what would worry me more is your ds hating school, and being low. That can never be good

Does he say why he hates it, and what 'horrible' means? Have you told the teacher your ds is sad about school atm?

I think schools have a duty to investigate every racist incident even if it is nothing

Marmon, you're expressed opinion that all "coloured" people want to be called black is extremely offensive and very wrong. Especially given that you are including people of pakistani origin in your definition of "coloured". You are basically separating the human race into coloured/black and white. What about chinese and japanese people? Are they black too in your opinion? Or maybe they are yellow? Or people of mixed race - do they want to be called black too? Of course you don't mind being called white: you live in a country (and world) in which white people have long been in positions of superiority and people of other races have had to fight to be equal and still now have to deal with micro-aggressions concerning their race. Even now there are all sorts of studies in which children of all races will rate their white peers above their non-white peers for all sorts of character qualities.

I'm not, by the way, suggesting that your DS was being or is racist, but you should be more careful about the way in which you express yourself. In general it is best not to make observations about people's appearance, whether it's about their skin colour, the shape of their eyes, their height or their weight.

Really cant be bothered to argue with you, no wonder Matthew Wright slags off Mumsnet, hes quite right, whenever anyone puts a thread on here it always turns into an argument. So much for women supporting each other, it turns nasty in an instant. BORING BORING, im not racist just remember talking to a group of black/mixed race people a few years ago and they said they liked to be called black. And of course i dont think oriental people etc are black and i dont feel superior coz im white, do not insult me!!!!
As i say whenever i look at any thread on here it turns nasty, bloody nothing better to do then take out frustarations of kids/ husbands etc on this forum. Well come on then flame me down, really dont care but i will NEVER come on this site again for advice and help, because apart from a few who are nice and supportive its mainly full of horrible witches .And no im not a troll.
And actually greenygrass i think your bloody offensive!!!!

Oh and by the way greenygrassy, im Jewish so i think my people have a little bit experience of what its like to be shat on, and made to feel inferior!! Didnt really want to bring up religion as its a little bit tedious to go on about history and all thats been. And to be honest i will say what i want as i do not believe in censorship, if someone hates me coz im jewish, i do not have a problem with that whatsoever as they are entitled to their opinion and i totally respect that. Coz opinions are like arseholes, every buggers got one!!!