In a quandary about primary schools in SE London

[Vangough]

We really don't know what to do. Have DD in local private prep school (not one of the posher ones !) and she adores it. She will move automatically into reception in Sept 2012. Problem is we can't afford for her 10month old brother to also go.
We have several options as I see it:

1. Move to the catchment of a very middle class/white british 'Dulwich' primary school we like - initially we'd have to rent within the ridiculously small catchment of 500m (IF a place comes up which is rare) in order to apply which means moving all our stuff into a house we won't live in for long and won't be 'home'. This will cost ££ as our house (although lovely and spacious) isn't in an area that gets great rental rates. Then IF we get in, we'd buy very close by (just not on the actual doorstep !) but houses go down in price by £80K out of the catchment.

1. Keep DD in the private school, stay where we are but move for when DS will need to apply to reception classes. This puts off option 1 for about a year or so.

Could we then apply to move DD into said state school if she has a younger sibling there??

Why is getting a school place such a nightmare? We would be wrenching ourselves away from a home we lovingly renovated for a year soon after finally finishing it and living out of boxes/storage which is SO stressful with kids all on the off chance we get a school place !! Surely this isn't right?

BTW our local schools are not really an option. Both nearby have 3/4 non-english speaking children with 39 different languages spoken in school and v poor results. Whilst I'm totally on for ethnic diversity I don't want DC in a class when most of their friends won't speak the same language as them, and they are totally in the minority.

I know we're in the same situation as so many parents but this seems to be taking over our lives !

Is it DVI?

You would only get a place for your DD if they had one, presuming your DS got into recep.

Can't imagine which local state schools you are talking about, but maybe they are in a different borough?

Hi OP- I'm in se London too, as you can tell by name. If you are considering moving, rather than drop a million on a house in the DVI catchment, have you considered branching out a little wider? Have a look on the se23dotcom forum, a few threads about primary schools there. In the forest hill/ Sydenham corner of se London, a couple of ofsted outstanding (for what that's worth) and good schools - fairlawn, stillness, horniman, Eliot bank, st barts to list a few. And house prices perhaps a bit more reasonable than the area you're looking at?

My children are in yr2 and reception of an se26 school, and one of the most moving moments for me was in my son's reception assembly when out of 60 children,they celebrated 23 different nationalities represented. When I was considering schools, I thought that dvi was the kind of school I wanted, but actually, a couple years on, for me that fits if you live in midsomer murders land :) we live in london, and their fantastic school reflects that.

So don't worry, there are lots of options locally, and lots of happy parents and children. I think the problem is that, like the news, it is the bad news stories that 'sell'... Good luck with yr decisions.

I live in SE London and work in a primary school in the area. You need to give a bit more info on the school that you are considering and your current catchment area before I could comment further.

Sorry not much time last time so here is more info. But first need to ask what is DVI?

We live in one borough (croydon) but are very closeby to Lambeth borough where we're considering moving to.

We don't really want to have our kids at a school which is dominated by any nationality, we just want a mix, which doesn't seem to exist anymore locally. You either get almost entirely white middle class British (which are then hugely over-subscribed) or 75-90% black/asian mixed nationalities where up to 50%+ don't speak English when they start school and therefore seem to have been boycotted by white middle class families !

For us this has a knock-on as if English isn't spoken at home it makes the whole social aspect of going to school change. A lot of my adult friends are from primary school days and our families are connected through this. How does this happen if the parents can't communicate?
This is such a delicate subject even as I write this I can't help but think I sound like some awful middle class white snob ! I'm not. I want my DC to have friends from all walks of life, that is why we live in London (I shudder at the thought of Midsommer villages) but I guess what I'm saying there isn't a middle ground that we can see.

the school we'd possibly move to get into is Rosendale. Our local if we stay would be All Saints or Cypress in Crystal palace (the infants part is great but not so sure about the Junior) The few parents I've got to know in our local area are moving because of the schools.

Is that enough info?

thanks !

Fgs! there's more than one good primary school in SE London.

What about Fairlawn, The Horniman School, most of the schools in East Dulwich?

Well Rosendale is very big isn't it, so I would have thought the chance of a place coming up there would be quite high. I would also bet that a lot of places come free after 7 as I would be surprised if children didn't go to local prep schools at that stage

In my experience places don't come up much in reception, and more than one change can be hard on kids. Doesn't sound like you have an option other than moving if you don't want the local schools - do it and be grateful you can afford to. I do think renting and then moving out of catchment is a mean trick but that's partly because I couldn't bring myself to do it. Result = school I'm unhappy with and no other options.
However - make sure you really look at the local schools not just rely on what was reported of them a few years ago. Ethnic mixes change yearly as catchments do, and remember that 50% EAL by no means means all those kids don't speak English at the start - and even those that don't will be fluent pretty quick.

VG - I used to live on Auckland Road, Cypress always seemed a v nice school - friend's children went there, she was very pleased with it, and was also a school governor. At the moment, a friend's friend (who lives near the CP Harris Academy) has her 2 kids there and is also very happy.
I know what you mean about almost wanting to make family friendships, as well as children making their own friends - but whichever school you go to in London, there can often be quite a lot of coming and going - the way the modern world works, we all move a lot more.

before you commit to Cypress or Rossendale, have a look round Horniman, Fairlawn and Eliot Bank - if you call their office, they will tell you when the next open day is. (We just had one in February - next one won't be until April/ May I think.)

Good luck!

I would love to consider other schools ! Horniman, Fairlawn and Eliot wouldn't be in our chatchment again so we'd have to move/rent which is our big agonising decision. We are also considering Wimbledon and Battersea.
However one major downside to those places is that we have the best childminder on the planet (who allows me to freelance and takes my kids on as and when and covers up to 7pm+) so the chances of finding that again is slim. Also I wanted to keep some continuity as my kids love her...

I TOTALLY agree with hating on principle the idea of renting in a catchment to then buy out of it. But we are talking up to 500m of the school being catchment (VERY few flats/houses ever come up here) and when I say out of the catchment I probably mean up to 1500m away ! (walking distance)

I'm glad to hear something positive about Cypress, as I said the infant site gets fantastic reviews and I too have spoken to a governor there. However at the Junior school something goes awry. Their results keep going down. Whilst I know that isn't the only reason to choose a school it does come into it !

I will look into our other local options, thanks for the heads up there....

I've been researching for a good nursery to send my DS to, he's 2 but I am considering getting his name down on the waiting list. I live between Cypress Hill and All Saint's schools. I've been reading the latest OFSTED reports for both schools and Cypress have been given grade 1 scores (top score) in all aspects. I'd heard that it was a good nursery/school, but reading the OFSTED reports really helped me make make up my mind. Let's hope he gets a place!

We tried to move to Fairlawn catchment this year but it fell through at the last minute. Have to say, although it's cheaper than Dulwich, it's still not a cheap option. There was very little in it between paying to live there and staying put (in Croydon) and paying for two kids to go to private prep. And then you're fairly screwed at secondary in Lewisham and would have to move anyway. I would go for the second option and move before your second child was at school age, but move further out, even though you don't really want to. I don't really want to either, but have tussled with this dilemma for years now and concluded something's gotta give. It's either expensive private, expensive house near good state, or affordable house near good state further out. Good luck!

But do keep looking - you may find a winner. Check out Downsview in the Norwood end of Croydon. Much more affordable area than Forest Hill and very nice school indeed by all accounts. Have to live fairly close though!

I find it hard to have much sympathy for this dilemma. It's the kind of attitude that fuels the virtual schools-apartheid that we have here in inner London, and whatever you say I do believe it is based on prejudice. My child is at the type of school you scorn - over 50% ESL, over 80% non-white. Yet as another poster said they are all fluent English-speakers by end of reception, and you'd be amazed at how little difference this makes in terms of academic progress. On the contrary, my impression is that many of the "immigrant" families are the most motivated; their kids right up there and yes, pulling ahead of the tiny group of (complacent?) white-middle-class ones . . . it happens, you know, quite a lot. On top of that, the mix of languages, origins, cultures - it brings the whole world to life in that classroom in a way I wouldn't have my child miss out on for anything. Take the plunge, I'd say, surprise yourself, and do your London kids a favour. . . .

Not in London but i'd start with state if that is what ultimately you need to do for both.

My DD is settled and happy in private yr 1 - I couldn't imagine moving her. Moving a settled 7/8 year old from friends would be hard on you all and you may unfavourably compare the school egs if private has alot smaller class size.