violence in primary, bad school or sign of the times?

[Chandon]

My DC go to the local little village school, good Ofsted, nice school, good teachers.

However, the school has, it seems to me, a very high amount of children with behavioural difficulties (autism, ADHD and some undiagnosed a yet) who get very violent at times.

In DC2 class two children get so violent at times (throwing furniture, punching teacher and children), the class has to be evacuated at least once a week.

My other DC got pushed over and kicked this week by one such child, and later this week was randomly attacked by a much bigger child who punched him in the face repeatedly. DC (7) is very upset and frightened now about going to school. He was attacked twice last week as well .

I don't want to be hysterical parent, but I am now very angry about how the school (doesn't) manage these children.

the teacher told me my DS did nothing wrong. the perpetrator apparently lost 10 minutes of his golden time.

I think the school do not seem in control of the situation (but then, there are 8 such children in a school of only 90 kids).

Is this how things are these days? is this normal? Does every school have this problem? I was so upset about DC1 getting hurt yet again yesterday that I cried. Don't know what to do at all....

I don't want to take them to a different school to find out it is like this everywhere.

The violence is less of an issue than tha school's response being ineffective.
There are a number of organisations both within an LEA and separate from them that the school can use for advice, strategies and training and they should be calling on them if they lack the expertise to have children with additional needs successfully supported in mainstream.
Put your complains in writing and ask them what they are doing to resolve the problems, and how they will measure the success of their approach.

This sounds outrageous. I would diary these incidents and have a meeting with the headteacher. You are definitely not over reacting. This behaviourt needs to be addressed. If the school can't handle these troubled pupils perhaps the pupils are in the wrong school. Have these troublesome children been violent towards other pupils as well? Can you enlist the help of other parents to come and see the headteacher with you?

that is good advice, I am writing a letter (unemotional unlike my OP), but hadn't thought of asking how they will measure the success of their approach.

Bad school, I think. My ds (rough-ish inner-city primary) had three kids with ASD/ADHD issues in his class, two with full-time one-to-one, another boy without extra help. There were quite a few others without specific SN but from difficult home backgrounds. In all his 7 years there I remember only a couple of incident involving my ds getting hurt. In Reception he was once bitten by one boy, which was taken very seriously (boy made to write letter of apology, parents called in to discuss, yadda yadda) and once in about Y5 or 6 when a different child snatched a glue gun off him in tech, resulting in my ds getting burnt. Again, dealt with very effectively by the school.

It sounds to me as if the school are not working as effectively as they could with the SN children - yes there may be occasional instances like the ones above where nobody could have foreseen or prevented someone getting hurt, but it certainly shouldn't be routine.

' If the school can't handle these troubled pupils perhaps the pupils are in the wrong school. '

Or perhaps the school needs to change in order to accommodate the needs of all of the children it is responsible for.
Unless you are advocating shipping off the faulty products to a different location?

You would expect all schools to have children with SN. But you would not expect those children to be regularly violent.

Slip ups happen - occassionally. But if they're not occosaniol then they're not slipups.

So, no, most schools aren't this bad. And you shouldn't put up with it.

Goblinchild

What I was trying to say was if the teachers really were trying their best to control them and failing perhaps they need to be somewhere with people who are better qualified at dealing with it.

I would be very upset and annoyed if my child was at a school where she was constantly being beaten up. Although I don't know the full story and perhaps it is just a useless school.

My DD goes to a school where there are lots of children with statements, special help, behavioral difficulties (without diagnosis). It is not a great school in other ways (not because of the inclusion).

BUT AFAIK this does not happen (or not much). I would be complaining loudly to the school if I were you.

The school is legally obliged to take steps to keep children safe as part of its duty of care. It sounds as though they could do with positive handling (restraint) or behaviour management training, as their current strategies to keep children safe are ineffective; they are therefore failing in their duty of care.

I should add that they are failing in their duty of care to the children who are being violent/destroying classrooms too.

No it is not like this. Our school has a few SEN/waiting for statements children who can be demanding, and violent at times, but this extends to hitting and one off biting which is distressing enough for the kids.
But not at the level you describe.
And losing "10 minutes of golden time" what a pathetic approach.

My dd was punched in the face at school (reception) and her glasses were broken, I took a very firm line and so did the school, the boy's mother was called and he was out of the building within 10 mins, SS were also called (already involved) and he never returned to the school.

I made it very clear to the head that I considered this assault and should it happen again I would call the police. It turned out the child was on probation at dd's school having been expelled from the reception class of his previous school.

I struggle to understand why these incidents aren't taken more seriously and wonder what message it sends in terms of appropriate behaviour and the consequences.

tethersend, thanks, that is a good way of phrasing it, I may use that in a meeting with the head next week.

PM me before the meeting if you want

Don't go in all guns blazing when you have your meeting! Remember that there may be things going on behind the scenes that you're not aware about. Many external agencies are incredibly difficult to pin down, and the school may be suffering with lack of co-operation from LEA, etc.

It is probably being taken very seriously, and is in the process of being dealt with.

Dd is in a school with high SEN, very deprived area, lots of very challenging pupils but nothing like that happens there. I wouldn't say that what happens in your child's school is typical or a sign of the times tbh more the sign of a school not effectively managing the behaviour of their pupils.

My DS is ASD and when he was in middle and pre school was beaten up on a regular basis by the NT children a fair few of whom went around in a gang group and one bit my ds many occasions hes been called names tripped up pinched , punched and one time has a pack for want of a better word circle him whilst two boys kicked him in the back till he was black and blue chantting "fight fight fight" , how horrific for him he must have been terrified all they did was call the parents in but only after i went back in school after seeing his back and complained seems its one rule for one and one rule for the other my sons Autistic not stupid or needs to be SENT anywhere but these boys went to his next school and the gang group of them continued their hate campain because of intollerance and ignorance. thats not to say if this IS going on in your dc's school and your obviously worried (as you are rightly so) id write to the LEA and Govenors to see what they are going to do about it and yes it sounds like they are a terrible school so may be (as i had to) remove your DC and find a better placement dependant upon the reply's you get being satisfactory

oops meant to type first and middle not pre school sorry

thanks tethersend.

I have been quite cool and collected and have asked one of the school governors what the best approach would be. She said to ask for the schools behaviour policy and complaints policy, and see if I can use anything in there. She also said it can be put on the agenda at the next governor meeting, as it is not just the incidents with my DS, but we have a group of concerned parents of children who have been attacked in the last few weeks.

Seeing the head tomorrow, and we are working on a letter to the governors, with this group of parents, about more openness and how the school could (should) more effectively manage this issue. There seems to be a momentum building of "enough is enough".

Madabouttheboy2000, I am very sensitive to the SEN kids themselves (that is why I have not started a vendetta against that one boy, but instead am trying to approach the issue with the view that essentially these kids need more help). I did tell my DS to stay away from the 2 kids that have hit him though.

you are im sure well meaning ,it was some of the inflammed comments after that upset upset me a litte as if lumping all children with differing needs together and ship them off somewhere, asd is a completely different thing to adhd and so is dyspraxia and these are only three types of SN , some Dcs have overlapping traits, there are many many others all with differing problems and needs it sounds like a lot of the posters dont understand are not interested in these DC's other than getting rid of them so we can have a non disabled totally perfect school full of perfect little robots that dont interfere with everyone else...reminds me of someone else?!! i completely understand about DC's being violent ie my post explaining bullying against my DC by NT children, perhaps it does not cross peoples minds that if your "different" and children being sometimes very cruel indeed they notice this a lot of these DC's may have spent as in my DCs case many years being spat on pushed kicked punched ect ect told they are useless stupid retards,,, my DS is VERY VERY clever as are a lot of Autistic children and you do realise a lot of this "bad behaviour" is from bad handling AND learned from other DCs becuse if your bullied what do you expect them to be like eventually?, the answer is not to ship them off somewhere so as not to see them and have to deal with it , its to learn!!! the DCs should all be taught how to live with each other regardless of colour creed or dissability the teachers should in an ideal world have FULL trining in DCs with SN in the interim this school obviously should have the outreach team from your nearest SS come in and observe /give advice and should be sending gradually as many teachers and TAs on courses to deal with the sittuation which has obviously spiralled out of control and has made you all sound like you hate ALL DCs with SN (please remember they are not all violent and are the same as your Dcs) but downtrodden and abused by the system we as parents fight tooth and nail to get any help whatsoever from this government the LEA are useless. wierd btw ive never heard of any school allowing any dc with SN or not to go around hitting teachers and dcs withot doing anything by law they have to tell you and the other parents involved and HAVE to do reports and make changes to keep all DCs safe with the BMC Safeguarding and Child Protection Awareness Training courses so how this could possibly be i dont know sounds like one particular Dc not lots of sn dcs , the only time a DC with SN will get violent is if they are completely ignored and missunderstood

I know Madabouttheboy2000. What I did not mention, as i did not think it relevant, is that my own DS has SEN, and due to his social-emotional needs gets more upset than an "average" child at violence (very shy and dreamy). I did not mention his SEN as he is in the process of being assessed so I can't really say much about it. So not a "robot" himself

I do however feel that if I do not fight for him, having been punched in the face by a big boy for no reason, I would not be doing my job as a mother.

FWIW, I think this school need to more effectively manage the children who get violent. There needs to be sympathy for the SN and SEN children, but also to those who get affected by their behaviour. You don't have to choose sides.

no one implied you should of course do something about your dc being hit sn sen or nt it shouldnt happen but invairiable in all schools does its what they do after that matters if yr dc is scared being in the same class as this particular dc is it possible they can swap classes not ideal whn yr dc is settled but what about the other dc with sn he doesnt sound settled could he be moved to class next door and watch yr dc at playtime more or give yr dc a buddy to either report to/ask for help there are many many things that can be done but all you have to mention and you should get a swift reaction is child safeguarding if this particular dc is so very unhappy that he lashes out what are they doing about it it cant carry on for him or fellow classmates, the outreach team should be visiting yr dc's school id ask /suggest to them they should contact them as they are evidently having great difficulties its not the child or any of the children at fault its the school and ultimately as i had to do(shouldnt have to but for my dcs health HAD to) id look into another school as my dcs safety and wellbeing is of paramout importance to me,no one said you shouldnt fight for him , if your dc has sen your going to have to get used to it very used to it on a daily basis im afraid

please excuse typos lost my readers AGAIN