Help.My dd's class teacher is a nightmare.http://www.mumsnet.com/te/3.gif

[hellouk]

i hope to get advice on this forum. my dd who is in yr 6 has been having many problems with her class teacher. will sum up dd's character as - extremely bright(in school teams for various competitions etc), sensitive, a bit talkative, stubborn, kind hearted, has a strong sense of justice, doesnot enjoy sports too much, methodical in work, and generally obedient.

The teacher's personality based on my interactions with her, will sum up as - although she is always cordial, I could see that she seemed very stressed, not focussed(she mumbles often about some strange unrelated topics), and generally "not alert".

cut to the class, my dd and 2(g and j) of her friends are the targets of her constant anger and barbs.
dd's various comments about her has been ,
" mrs..t has anger management problems".
" mrs t is very nice and friendly to all the adults that come to the school but she is just mean to us. mrs t says that she has no favourites in class, but says, some children she does not like, and looks in the direction of dd and her friends. dd says, although mrs t claims to have no favourites in class, she is partial to a few children, and blames us often, even when we have not done anything wrong. she has labelled dd and her friends plus a few other children "baddies" and the rest of the class as being "goodies". dd says, now all the "goodies" regularly "suck up" to the teacher. the teacher says dd walks in with a "sulky face" many days. dd says, mum i just had a normal expression on my face. dd says, i donot feel happy going to her class, as she blames us unneccesarily every day for many things, doesnot hear us out, punishes us by making us sit separately,even during lunch time. one incident dd related was , sometimes the teacher makes mistakes in the information she gives to the class, which dd put her hand up and corrected. mrs t didnot like it and told me off for it . Later on, mrs t gave the corrected information to the class. dd says, mrs t is "sneaky". I told dd, why don't you keep quiet when you spot these mistakes, and not correct her. DD said "mom the mistakes are basic mistakes that any child or adult will be able to see and it is "hard" not to correct her.
mrs t has also "informed" few other staff about dd and her friends, so the other teachers too "keep an eye" on dd n friends. dd n friends now get regularly hauled up for
many petty things.
dd says, she doesnot want to go to school, and goes only because her few friends are there, but each day, dd comes home on the verge of tears. dd says, "mom I try very hard to be in mrs t's good books. i try to not hang on to the past, but mrs.t , she hangs on the past and makes things go bad each day. when i give in my homework mrs t is friendly to me, but then a little while later she starts to pick on me and my friends and makes comments in front of the whole class, that makes me feel that I am

a bad person".
there have been numerous incidents in the past year, that dd has related, from which I gather, that the teacher has behaved in an immatured, irresponsible way, with no accountablity for her petty comments. frankly, I think dd's class teacher has an "not calm minded" teacher, lacking higher qualities such as compassion, wisdom, enthusiasm, which are so crucial , while imparting education to young minds.

I am willing to give in to the doubt that dd might be the "one causing the trouble", but the teacher has NEVER approached me with complaints about dd.
I discussed this with the mothers of dd's friends. They have said, they heard EXACTLY the same things from their children. They have told me, they donot know what to do, as they think, talking to the teacher is pointless. talking to the head teacher is not going to help, as the class teacher will come to know about it, and make the children's life even more miserable. I tried to find out from one of the governor's who I should approach for this problem and what the role of the governor's are ? the governor lady said "it is not her job" and i should approach head teacher, and if not satisfied then chair-governor. i cannot approach head teacher without jeopardising dd's position further. the school doesnot have a " confidential staff", who is "neutral" , to whom parents can go. in the uk, everyone reviews, a child's "progress". how does anyone monitor a teacher's " performance"? even if, someone a head teacher or other, does go and "witness" a class, i would think, that the teacher would be on her "best behaviour" !
why is there never a 360 degree, appraisal. teacher's reviewing child's performance and a child's feedback about teachers, being reviewed by the heads.
I find it a hopeless situations many days. I have started dreading sending/picking up dd from school,as i feel i have to hear of her "unending trauma" one more day.
can anyone help at all?

Are you absolutely sure that you are getting the whole story here?

I would make an appointment to talk to the teacher before you go any further.

What do you mean "jeapordizing dd's position'?

She sounds like my dd. Her teachers love her as she brings a lot to the classroom and livens up the group, has brilliantly ideas but she is very talkative and they get very frustrated with her and have been known to want to strangle her, as she often doesn't know when to stop talking and forgets that although she gets things very quickly the rest of the class may not. She is constantly being moved away from her friends. At last parents evening we even had a discussion with one of her teachers and dd, where was the best place for her to sit so she doesn't get distracted.

DD is often coming home and telling me this or that teacher hates her, they don't hate her they are frustrated with her and it's very clear from parents evening they actually really enjoy teaching her.
Year 6 girls can be very unpleasant creatures and if all the other teachers are "picking" on your daughter as well it must tell you something.

That is quite an essay. IMO, your DD has only a short while left in this woman's class and she should just keep her head down and stop correcting her.
It is a sad truth teachers DO have favourite pupils even though they say they don't.
I daresay I'll get flamed for my advice, but I'll suck it up.

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Sometimes I don't think children realise that their low level misbehaviour (talking etc) is disruptive and needs to be brought to attention.

Of course Mrs T will have 'informed' other staff about dd and her friends. Teachers DO talk to each other you know.

Sorry I'm finding it hard to sympathise as dd (yr5)is on the opposite side of this. Her lessons are regularly being disrupted by talking, silly attention-seeking behaviour and retorts which require children to be moved around the classroom (sometimes with the culprit being sat next to dd for good influence ) or disciplined. They never seem to learn though. Meanwhile dd remains quiet but gets very frustrated. I'd agree with those who suggest you may not have the full view of things. By Year 5/6 children should know the boundaries and be able work within them. Having said that I think a bit of teacher/child feedback could be useful in both circumstances and the school should defintiely have a hierarchy so you know who to speak to next.

I think your language says a lot about your position on this, and that is obviously rubbing off on your DD.

You clearly see this teacher is incompetent and your DD had picked up on this, hence the condescending corrections.

And as for good children 'sucking up' WTF! It's called earning the teachers respect and approval and is a vital part of school.

I don't see what you want to achieve. The teacher hasn't talked to you about DD's behaviour so obviously not a major issue. You don't want to approach the teacher. You don't want to discuss it with anyone who might approach the teacher and yet you want a 360 appraisal system.

There is one in place already. Talk to the teacher. If you're not happy, then talk to the Head. Then thR chair of Governors.

What do you want? For her to be disciplined or fired based on heresay as long as she doesn't know it's you?

You have three options.
Make an appointment to speak to the teacher. Explain -briefly- the main issues your daughter has discussed with you and listen to what she has to say. It's highly unlikely that your DD has given you all the facts.
Make an appointment with the head teacher. As above. The head teacher will speak to the teacher, otherwise there is no point.
Or you can choose to do nothing and continue to listen to your DDs daily complaints.

why is there never a 360 degree, appraisal. teacher's reviewing child's performance and a child's feedback about teachers, being reviewed by the heads.

what??? There is no 360 degree appraisal system because your child is in year 6, fgs!

Teachers have all sorts of appraisals, meetings and observations by colleagues, managers and OFSTED. I imagine they're in a better position to comment on the teacher's capabilities than your 10 yr old child.

Your dd does seem to see herself as a bit of a martyr. How much effort are you putting into making her see the other side of the story, understand why her teacher might be reacting the way she does, feel what it is like to be the teacher when you are constantly being interrupted by somebody trying to correct you?

My dd went through a phase, about the same age, when she was very critical of the adults around her. I always listened to her, but I also spent a lot of time trying to make her see the other side, and I am glad to say it has rubbed off on her: she is now a far more mature and understanding person, and that was time well spent.

While I am well aware that teachers are not always perfect, I think if it was my dd and she kept saying Miss picks on her I would at least like to see some concrete examples (which you haven't offered in your OP)- and I think I might want to hear the other side too. Just as I would not judge my dd unheard, on the say so of a teacher, I would not judge the teacher unheard either.

I am amazed at how a bit talkative, has been taken to mean " interupts constantly and is forever speaking and chatting over teacher and giggling with her friends.

OP your teacher sounds exactly like the teacher my dd2 had in year 4 he was very like this. favourites and no direct complaints to me about dd2 (in fact it was - she is a lovely child she is soo clever) then when you got dd2 telling me her side of things (this culminated in him throwing her homework in the bin in the front of the entire class) DD2 whom has low selfesteem already due to dyslexia completely went down and it has taken us up until now (year 6) 2 very supportive teachers and she is getting along nicely. After I learnt over 60% of the parents complained about him at some point or the other to the temporary head.. (whom did nothing)

As you have friends whom are getting similar I think that the 3 of you should ask for a meeting with teacher and head to discuss management of this. In it stress how she needs to use POSSITIVE reinforcement but also listen to what she has to say. (even if you feel it is wrong) I would heavilly stress the fact that your dd is telling you she feels stupid and got upon, I would also gently coach your dd in how to effectively correct people.. (you know possitive reinforcement from the child too sounds like you are already working on this) I would heavilly encourage your dd to take interest in her 2ndary school perhaps even phone them and see if they have some extra days she can come along to? You are in the lucky situation she wont be with her for long but 4 months is still a very long time for a child to deal with negative influence. Plus there are children in Y5 I assume will get this teacher too.

I would have a meeting with the other mums and have a game plan down " theese are our points to discuss" (get direct examples from the girls not just "I feel stupid") and then take that to the meeting and after follow up with a written letter stating

"we discussed A B C agreed the following actions could you please confirm this is also how it has been noted at the school and can we have a follow up meeting on xx date"

I would love to say all teachers are good but no they are not. I have exprienced some fantastic ones I have also experienced 1 that made me complain to the governors due to poor behaviour and a head that did nothing despite repeated complaints about him. He is thankfully no longer teaching at all.

Good luck

Poor you - can't believe how little sympathy you have had. Agree with Lonnie - how did a bit talkative turn into disruptive child?

I am a parent of a year 6 child who is also disliked by her teacher, and has been picked on, and put down. But luckily for me she can handle it. But it drives me mad.

I know how you feel - as a parent you are caught between a rock and a hard place. You are worried about saying anything because you fear it could make things worse for the child.

My inclination is not to say anything (as you are getting close to the end) but put your energy into working on strategies with your child on how to handle people who behave like her teacher is behaving. (She will come across it many times in her life.) Try to get your child to think through what she is doing that may be provoking the teacher, and what she could do to improve the situation. Treat it like a challenge. If you do this, you will be helping your child learn a massively useful thing in life - that we can't change others' behaviour but we can change our own. And she will learn resilience. I'm afraid that correcting the teacher is an absolute NO-NO from now onwards, not because it is wrong to correct the teacher, but because the teacher can't handle it.

Good luck to you both. You are not alone!!

Thank you for giving your time in reading and responding.
i am responding to a few crucial points raised by you all, that i felt should be clarified.
@ seeker- I understand the story here.it has been going on for about 5-6 months.a) know my daughter well enough to know she doesnot "make up" incidents and although she is sensitive,she is quite mature. dd has been taught by us, to be not only respectful to teachers, but HAVE AFFECTION for the teacher and respect for the LEARNING that is being imparted. she has a healthy relationship with other teachers, viz her chess teacher, after school club teacher, her ex yr 4 teacher.The school lost some good teachers, in the past 1 year, the head teacher has been replaced just recently, and substitute teachers have been brought in.
As I mentioned I have spoken to dd's friend's mothers, to HEAR what they have heard from their children. The incidents,comments all tie up.
@hocuspontas @lizs - making a mountain of a molehill! don't know whether to laugh or cry at your wise judgement. it is almost 6 months of this situation. "low level misbehaviour" of being "talkative" doesnot amount to being unruly/disruptive that triggers an emotional outburst by the teacher.
I donot know what made you jump to the conclusion that if i mentioned dd as being talkative(she is not talkative in CLASS DURING LEARNING) then she is DISRUPTIVE, or because she is bright, she would finish her work soon and disrupt the class!
@messybessie- Please do not add to the mess, if you cannot help, and some polite language please. are you saying teachers cannot be incompetant? or it is a crime for a child to be bright? what makes you conclude, that my opinion of the teacher, is what is influencing dd's experiences.my estimate of this teacher, is based on my interaction with her.
(I donot have any personal axes to grind )and ( I genuinely think the teacher needs help too). Fyi,my opinion of the teacher is quite a gentle appraisal of a difficult person, and this opinion has been confirmed by 2 other parents- one who is a teacher herself, in another school. Now to give you more visibility, these other parents are not my family or intimate friends, that will agree with everything, that I am saying( i don't think even family or friends do that these days), nor are we a bunch of war-mongering parents, that will entertain, support, bad behaviour in our children, as some of you seem to imply. These 2 parents have told me, that they tried( as their children were affected even more) to broach the topic with the teacher,but it didnot lead to anything. they genuinely fear, if they talk to her, it will weaken the child's position even more.( what do you tell the teacher- that she is a volatile person,whose partiality is affecting the children?). They have said to me, that they think, there is nothing they think will redeem the situation, and are just asking their children to "hang on", till the year finishes. They have felt that they cannot tell the teacher that her policy of having "favourites" in class, and segregating the class into goodies and baddies ,labelling them for 6 months, is damaging to their children .
i have also checked with another mom, whose son (in year 8 now)to find out what her son's experiences were with this teacher. she summed it up saying " j was glad to be out of mrs..t's class !)
The fact that this mrs-t,is around for 2 years long, with her behaviour, indicates that all the so called processes of monitoring, checks and controls are ineffective and existent only on paper.( this lead to a trigger of a 360degree appraisal that i have mentioned)

@mugglemum- thanks. that is exactly what I have been doing and telling dd upto now. I have asked her to reflect, if they did something wrong to provoke the teacher to dislike them, and if she could do things , to make the teacher happy. as u will see, from my earlier post- when dd narrated the incident of her correcting the teacher, my response to her was why didn't she keep quiet (to not correct the teacher).
But dd can see the hypocracy in the situation.(also this correcting incident, has not happened everyday, as some of you seem to think- once or twice-when dd said there were errors that couldnot be ignored by 11 yr olds-getting conversion rate the other way round was one such instance) dd understands that the teacher is volatile, which is why she has been able to "hold on" so much.
I will figure out what I have to do, and post an update.
For us,there is a lot we have learnt, and even lot that we have do.Aspiring to rectify difficult situations, is not an option we make based on convienience.

cory, i have summed up "briefly" the various things that have been happening in the past 6 months.IT is NOT a one-off, single event, which I can easily narrate, so that you can then Judge WHAT happened.
When we post messages on forum like mumsnet, there is an underlying assumption, that a "balanced" version(and hopefully the truth) is being posted.
Do you expect, that I would have kept a note of these incidents in a diary from day one, so i can reproduce it here ?
fy info, my post here is a general summing up, of everyday conversation(most bad, many neutral, few good days that dd had at the class). If i realise that the problem lies with DD,( in which case, I would have heard similar complaints from her for the last 3 years), as a sensible parent, I would seek help from behavioural counselling for her and not seek advice at mumsnet !

op, paragraphs are a wonderful thing

Yes, if I was planning to go in and complain about a teacher I would keep a diary, so I could give details about actual incidents.

Somebody (your dd) saying that another person has anger management issues doesn't actually constitute much proof.

Try thinking about it from the opposite viewpoint. If it was the teacher claiming your dd had anger management problems or was volatile, would you just take her word for it without more detail than you have given in your OP?

If the school called me in and said this about my dd, I would gently ask them to give details of actual incidents. And if my dd said it about a teacher, I would ask her to do the same. Cuts both ways.

And yes, I have complained about my dd's school in the past, so I am certainly not averse to the idea. But I don't think quoting sweeping statements about a person helps at all and I have always told dd so.

hellouk,
Your post is lengthy... gather the problem has been festering for long. Quite surprised by the many implied negative things said in the post by other "mums?, a few of these quite malicious.
Think that you have let the problem "sort itself out" for too long? Most of the schools have a sound monitoring system, of pupils as well as staff, but in years of experience I know that it can fail quite a few times. Schools in Europe, where I worked briefly, do have highly trained confidential advisors, that parents/teachers/students can approach directly and this works really well in resolving many awkward situations.Here,the only option for you is to have a conversation with the teacher and if not satisfied then the head teacher. You have not tried the option. Things will be clearer to you, and you can help your dd and the other children, perhaps make the passage easy for the new yr.5 students that will move up!
Good luck to all those affected. Peace.

peaceful warrior,
thanks.i HAVE met the teacher a few times regarding dd's progress,but didn't raise these topics.A) it was early on, didnot think these things actually happen at schools & didn't take dd's complaints seriously.B)teacher was all praises for dd, and didnot bring to my attention about problems with dd's behaviour or anything .but just last week dd said that ,when she walked into class in the morning, dd had a straight face, and the t said,"why do u have a miserable expression on ur face?oh i know that look-the whole world is against me- actually you are quite lucky"(dd says, if i have a straight face, she says i have a miserable expression on my face,in front of the whole class and i dont understand why she said that and what she meant with the lucky comment).then on friday,while they were going through some tests, she had marked dd's answer wrongly.dd asked her about it,after which the t added 1 mark to her score.t's subsequent comment was " ACTUALLY 1 mark is not going to make a DIFFERENCE TO YOUR GRADES"! These are just a few incidences that i quote and the past incidences indicate a pattern to me.i have to figure out how i am going to discuss what i see as shortcomings in qualities such as compassion, maturity,wisdom ! I am also confused to as, perhaps this IS normal for teachers to say?..anyway, tks for ur support.will keep u posted.will pray a lot too.

quite a few unhelpful posts on both sides here, in my view. Everyone seems inclined to either assume it's an incompetant teacher or a disruptive child, probably neither is entirely true of fair!

Either way, there's a clear procedure, you talk to the teacher, you talk to the head, you talk to the governors, if you STILL get no satisfactory solution, you pull your daughter out.

am sad you think there is a conspiracy between HT and CT.
I have approached our HT and complained about CT she rightly has done her best to defend her staff before a parent, but she is balanced and we have seen a change afterwards.

Surely your ht would do the same.

Hellouk I wonder if a bit of a negative spiral has built up here where you DD is assuming things are criticism, reacting as if being critisised and then the teacher gets responds to that reaction and so on...

For example, the remark about the missing mark can be taken as a simple statement of fact, if your DD was not near the grade borderline then one mark would not change her grade - no hidden meaning at all. The way you have written if with certain words emphasised in caps makes it sound like a criticism but without being there it is impossible to know if the teacher was being critical or if the teacher was being factual but for some reason your DD or you are perceiving it as criticism.

It does come over in your posts that you or your DD are now so sensitive / have such a negative relationship with this teacher that everything is been seen or heard as a criticism whether or not it was intended that way.

Chazsbrilliantattitude,
tks for ur thoughts on my problems. if DD narrates her experiences, to which i give a patient hearing,it doesnot mean that I am, encouraging her to be critical of her teacher.my reaction has been neutral, as yet. i donot critize the ct or belittle dd's worries or encourage it..nor have i taken these things seriously right at the beginning, to WRITE all incidences down as someone suggested. my ususal reaction has been "it is nothing serious..don't worry,things will be fine tomorrow,blah blah etc etc .."
the problem is, things have never become fine.and to me a clear pattern of what i see as a ct lacking in wisdom and a compassionate, empathetic approach to managing children.(see my initial remark, as being "unfocussed")..
... dd goes to the class, keeps a straigt face, ct, says " you have a miserable expression on your face, i know that look, as if the whole world is against you, acutally you are quite lucky, etc etc. Which CT would expect, that after this start, the pupil would break into smiles and be cheerful the whole day.so there goes a day off..brilliant child management policy.i would think it a very insensitive attempt to mend a relatioship that has been thorny. regarding the marks incident, my writing in caps letters, is to emphasise the tone, with which this was said. dd only knew, that the answer was marked wrongly, yet a teacher would know,the significance of this mark for a child? dd's reaction, to this matter of fact remark has been, she feels it is not right to ask for a wrong to be corrected.I didnot put this reaction into dd's mind.ok?.
( ask a 11 plus child, who loses a place at a school , because of 1 mark).anyway, i do give the benefit of the doubt to the teacher( which is why, i am still wondering what to do, remember?) there are lots of things, that donot appear to me to be mature, such as labelling children as baddies or goodies, play the divide and rule policy, to the detriment of a healthy relationship between children. i certainly would like to think, that perhaps dd and her friends, provoke her each day, to pass certain "matter of fact" comments, but if that was the case, i would should have heard it from her or the school.
@supersewer- please let me know where, I have implied that there is conspiracy between HT and CT?
all i have said, the other children's parents, who have( already) approached the CT, and tried to broach the topics, didnot meet with any success(she skirted the issue- was the feedback that i got). They donot see any point in approaching the HT, as they donot see this being resolved in a real way. they have asked their children to "hang in there". I am wondering how i should attempt to broach the topic, by quoting verbatim "incidences"?..like.. you said this, dd said that, then u said this, dd said that etc..etc..covering a 6 month period..human memory is such that ,even the pain on the following day after at a dentist's chair, wears off..emotional pains of my dd will also wear off with her inner strength(which all this is teaching her) and with the support of the circle of family and friends.as i said, i am wondering how to resolve it without causing more damage.
@dukeleto..u r right....talking to ct/ht etc..is the only option.the other parents have tried it, to no success..i am wondering how to go about doing this..