Working memory at 5 biggest predictor of academic success

[Cortina]

Have recently heard this. It's interesting that working memory and IQ are separate (although related).

Good news is studies have proved it's possible to improve a child's working memory.

Children with a poor working memory are often seen as those who don't listen & don't focus.

Fish oils - the info I heard at a dyslexia conference suggested that the 'eyeq' ones were the only ones that were any good. The others used short chain thingys rather than long chain thingys. That was 5 years ago so the others may have improved since then.

There is debate about which are the best omega fish oils. Some believe you need lots of EPA like EyeQ and some believe you need lots of DHA like efalex. I have used EyeQ, Natures own and boots and found them all good.

I think any brand that has a lot of fish oil in it is a good place to start. So ones that aren't suitable are sweetie type ones because they contain very little oil, and vegetarian ones.

I thought there was debate over whether fish oil supplements worked at all. There are many studies but much criticism over methodology.

Has there been new research? Is it conclusive now?

that's interesting Indigo I used Efalex with my son and they didn't help at all.

My LA conducted some research into fish oils and provided 3000 children with EyeQ suppliments which they claimed improved GCSE results.

There have been a lot of studies on Efalex for kids with ADHD.

But I've always assumed that Omega Fish Oil only help if you're deficient in it. And the easiest way to tell if your child is deficient in EHA / DHA is to try them on fish oils and see whether or not it helps....

It noticeably helped DS1 and DD. Made no diff at all to DS2 or me.

I don't think it helps everyone. I think it's worth a trial if your child is suffering from any of a long list of problems including memory, concentration and stress.

Even in the study of 3000 students that it claimed improved GCSE results - they only mean on average. They don't mean every single child benefited.

My son is diagnosed ADHD which is why we tried it but it didn't suit him

yes of the 3000 they claimed a third showed significant improvements

my ds2 is 7 and young for his year - birthday end July - he's a lovely chap, very very chatty - has to be reined back a bit as he can't necessarily read appropriate moments to chat & not - although we and school quite relaxed about pointing this out to him. His verbal ability is very good but he finds written work very hard. He has had an ed pysch report because his verbal and written gap is huge & it seems prob is working memory. Interested to hear from other parents who may have experienced this..its a confusing area as he def meets some of the working mem criteria but not clearly so..thanks!

DD1 and my working memory is pretty awful (both dyslexic), but academically we do far better than average.

I think, bright dyslexics and almost by definition dyslexics are bright*, get round our horrible working memory by finding order, patterns and stories in what we want to learn.
Once facts are connected together they seem to be transferred to more reliable types of memory.

Sadly spellings, people's names, telephone numbers and French vocab. float away into the ether.

(*dyslexics have trouble with reading and or writing out of proportion with everything else. Its the striking difference between listening to DD1 talk and trying to get her to write something that rings alarm bells.)

Fascinating book about changing how your brain functions, which includes memory of course is Barbara Arrowsmith Young's "The Woman Who Changed her Brain". Hugely motivated woman who was absolutely determined to deal with her neurological deficits, and opened a school for others.

www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_18?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=barbara+arrowsmith+young&sprefix=Barbara+arrowsmith%2Caps%2C174

This is very interesting. Although more and more I am swinging away from academic success as a marker for a happy life. My dd has been said to have an eidetic memory, is she happy, kind of, is she achieving above the norms, not so much.

I myself was very academic, I went to a crappy secondary school, but now given enough material and time I reckon I could pass most exams, in whatever subject. I'm a very good exam passer, means nothing though.

I was always very good at maths, I can work things out, slowly though. Which isn't the best attribute for exams.

All of the happiest/most high achieving people on my fb are not the cleverest and didn't get the best gcse results.

In fact in my crappy school I probably got the best gcse results and I got very good a-level results, I'm a proper waster though, have failed at life in every turn.

Lots of people who were very average in the gcse stakes have gone on to be nurses and civil servants and all sorts of things. Lots of the blokes are electricians/scaffolders/offshore people.

DS has the same issue as many on here, very high in most areas but shocking short term memory. He has had ed report and confirmed as being on the dyslexia spectrum... But the headmaster dismissed the report and said the school doesn't agree with its findings and many staff see DS as being simply difficult and naughty (which sometimes he can be) he has a tough time of it. Anyone else have this?

After playing shopping list with grandpartens, great aunts etc...the memory gets poor :-) thanks for the links i shall read.

I am another parent of a dyslexic child, and although his working memory was assessed as relatively average he is extremely bright and expected to do very well academically (although only in things he finds interesting!). He is very badly organised though and his poor writing skills mean that he never gets the marks he should on written tests (luckily for him we now live in North America where tests are more frequently multiple choice and there is a big emphasis on verbal skills).

This is an old thread :)

Since this thread started I have improved DDs memory hugely

But it has taken an awful lot.

DD has severe dyslexia, and one of the reasons she couldnt learn to read was her memory was so poor by the start of Y3 she still couldn't remember any two letter graphemes (ay, ee etc). (another reason was her processing was so slow that she could never blend CVC words fluently)

So we are talking a really bad memory.

These are the things I have done which have helped improve her memory:

• auditory integration training at the sound learning centre
• neurodevelopment therapy at Tinsley house
• going gluten / dairy free
• omega (vegepa-which is high in EPA but has no DHA), zinc & magnesium

All of the above were necessary.

If you are just a bit concerned about your child I recommend vegepa, zinc & magnesium.

If you're very concerned I recommend starting with a neurodevelopment therapy. There are many....... Although I think the best is Tinsley house.

(although maleuca I read an article about arrowsmith young, and what she calls a neurodevelopment therapy is very different from the 2 my children have done)

Ducky, that's a really interesting view.

My stance with my DC is that if you do well at school you will have options. So, if it would make you happy to be a doctor, then you can be it. If you would be happier making candles or painting houses, you can choose to do that.

But maybe we force our academically successful children down a certain route, instead of allowing them to choose.

IndigoBell Unfortunately, in her book, Arrowsmith Young does not detail the actual programmes, although it would appear that a very thorough 'inventory' of the client/patient is made, then a programme is individualised. The programmes involve multiple timed practice sessions to address weaknesses, originally using flash cards but now computerised. This does sound like Precision Teaching. Another person called Howard Eaton has written a simsilar kind of book about the Arrowsmith approach, which I have not read yet, and it was Norman Doidge in 'The Brain that Changes Itself" who first wrote about Barbara Arrowsmith Young.

It is disheartening for anyone to read that a low working memory is a pre-determinant of academic success, and might have the effect of crushing hope. Once there was a belief that you could not do anything to improve the ability to learn of certain types of individual; luckily it is a belief of the past!

Motivation, practice, sheer hard work make a big difference to one's opportunities.

What form did your neurodevelopmental therapy take?

Yes, I read that she practised flascards for 8 hous a day for months!

Agree it sounds like PT.

So more a form of 'overlearning' than a neurodevelopment therapy?

The 2 therapies my lot have done (retained reflex therapy and Tinsley House) have involved physical exercises. Walking up stairs, crossing the midline, things like that.

I have been so impressed with how both DS and DD have done at TH that I managed to convince school to try out the TH stairs exercise. It is very clear that my kids brain has changed. For example DS (Aspergers)has started to feel empathy! And DD has started to feel angry and upset! (previously she was always happy)

As you can imagine school must have also been impressed to go with such a radical solution.

They chose 10 Y5 boys, all who had been labelled with MLD or similar, all who were working about 3 years behind.

The TA did the 5 minutes 'stairs exercise', 3 times a day with them. After 6 weeks 9 of the boys are noticeably better cognitively!!!!!!

Their more alert in class, can understand the stuff better, are eager to learn! And the boys themselves all report that they feel cleverer.

So very exciting initial results.

Mmmmm.

My dd was assessed at 7 for dyslexia and the clinical psychologist said that she had the worst working term memory he'd ever seen.

She is the best behaved girl in class who always listens and doesn't mess about. She's passed her 11+ and got 5s in her SATS.

Ha, its an old thread and I posted on it first time round.

I have a poor working memory. Can't remember the exact figure quoted by ed psych last year but it is bad. This hasn't stopped me gaining a degree and working at management level. I am currently studying for my second degree, I think there must be a lot of other factors involved, not just working memory.

Is working memory really just one thing? What if, like me, you do well on working memory tests for strings of random numbers that you have to repeat forwards or backwards, but cannot for the life of you remember the name of the person you have only just been introduced to, however hard you try to repeat it internally or visualise a silly image to help you remember the name?...

There's at least:

• working memory
• auditory short term memory
• long term memory
• visual short term memory.

So working memory is used when doing a multistep maths problem, whereas it has no bearing on recalling your times tables. (or people's names - which I think would fall into short term auditory memory)

But my short term auditory memory for numbers is excellent... it just isn't for names. I think a different part of the brain processes numbers to the part of the brain which processes peoples' names. Or maybe it's the fact that I'm more interested in what the person I'm talking to looks and sounds like and find it hard to get a grip of a random name chosen by someone else that bears no resemblance to any particular characteristics of the person (ie the person isn't just a symbol, there is a lot to take in about them that is more immediately interesting than their name, and their name is just random, not connected to anything else I am taking in about them). Or maybe I just panic when it comes to names, because I know I'm not very good at them! I only tend to remember names if they really don't seem to fit the person at all, or were chosen for a particular, unusual, reason that is memorable and is explained to me.

My DS has an unusually large disparity between his IQ related scores and his working memory. As a result he experiences huge frustration at school when teachers nag him to concentrate, stop fidgeting, listen etc. He is frequently reduced to tears at the end of the day because as he says he is listening etc but just can't get this through to his teachers..Be really interested to hear from anyone who has had success in getting proper support in school for this..as I seem to be talking to goldfish!!

I forgot to add.. in terms of what causes poor working memory - it is thought to be genetic - social factors etc seem to have little bearing. I have spent some time researching this as a number of members of both sides of the family have experienced similar issues.