Clarification needed re mid year school application for spaces

[Lonnie]

Hi everyone please bear with me as I get this written down.

At the school my children are at they are not currently at full capacity (capacity 105 currently they have 101 students)

The school as you can gather from that is small and they use double classes so you have class 5 and 6 togeher class 3 and 4 together and in the last 3 years they split year 1 between year 2 and year R hence there are 4 classes Class 1,2,3 and 4

In the reception year they have a full class

They recently had 2 children leave (year 2 and 3) A aquaintence of mine (friend of friend of mine type thing) has 2 children whom currently are at year 2 and year R She is unhappy with the school that her children are in and I have sugggested that they apply for the year 2 space and wait for a opening in year R. (I will offer to take the year 2 child to and from school every day) - my aquaintence will not be told this until Friday as our mutual friend wont see her until then.

However (now I am getting to the point) I have a reccollection of reading on mn that if a school has the capacity then they have to take the children in that apply to go. Did I get that right? If so considering the fact the school has the spaces would it not be possible for her to apply to the LEA to have the spaces in the year 2 (where we know there is a space) but also for the year R for her younger child (whom the main issue with current school is) Did I understand this correctly? as the year 1 is spread between class 1 and 2 I honestly do not belive that there will be a stretch on the class resources esp as the current year 1 is the other place that they are 1 number down. (hence they will not stretch the numbers when the 2 years are combined)

So have I got this right and if so is the thing to do not to simply suggest she contacts the LEA and asks for a transfeer of her two children to this school? Or is it more complex than this?

she can ask to go to any school, whether it is full or not. We moved our DS in Oct due to issues with his then current school, the LEA told us that we should put down any school we wanted to go to on the application form, which is the same one now that you would use for transfer to senior school or application to reception. They then take 3 weeks to tell you their decision and if the younger one hasn't got a space he will be put on the waiting list. You may want to tell her to speak to the admissions clerk, they were very helpful with us (we were at the change school or HE stage so very desperate) :) good luck

You would probably find that the YrR child wouldn't be offered a place as the school are currently up to PAN for class R however an appeal could then be put in stating the case you outlined about numbers, it could go either way as there is an argument to be had that if a child applied for a Yr1 place and the school was one under PAN the place should be offered but if they have taken an extra in YrR they wouldn't then be able to go up to PAN in Yr1 without breaking class size regulations. This would create a tricky situation and I am really not to sure where the admission code stands on this kind of thing, hopefully one of the admission experts will be along shortly.

You can apply for any school at any time. However, the question is not whether the school is full up to capacity. The question is whether the year is full up to the admission number. If the year is full up the child will not be admitted even if all the other years are empty.

Looking at the capacity, I presume the admission number is 15. If there are less than 15 children in Reception they must offer a place to anyone who applies. However, if there are 15 or more in Reception they will not offer a place. If your friend then appealed it might be an infant class size appeal. Infant class size regulations would apply if the class size limit (30 children) would be breached if Reception, Y1 and Y2 are all full up to the admission number. If class size regulations apply you cannot get a child into Reception on the basis that there is a vacancy in Y1.

Having said that, you seem to be saying that the infant classes are R/Y1 and Y1/Y2. With an admission number of 15 that would suggest about 22 children in each class in which case it would not be an infant class size appeal. However, if they had R in one class and Y1/Y2 in another it would be an infant class size appeal.

they spit Y1 so it is a infant classes are R/Y1 and Y1/Y2. with 22 cuhildren in each year yes. and yes the Admission number is 15

I am now a bit confused. Am I understanding it right that she should apply for the school for both girls and then appeal when the one in Year R doesnt get in ? if so underwhat grounds?

She should apply for a place for both girls, and then wait for a place to come up.....

She should apply for a place for both girls. When they refuse to admit her YR girl she should make sure the LA put her on the waiting list.

She could also appeal for the YR girl if she wants. She can use any grounds she wants. As it isn't an infant class size case, the appeal panel will have to decide whether the prejudice to her daughter through not being admitted outweighs the prejudice to the school through having to admit another child. She should therefore explain to the panel why she wants her daughter to move from her current school to this school, concentrating on what is good about this school rather than what is bad about the current school. There is no guarantee she would win an appeal but it is worth a try.

thank you everyone I will get this passed over to her.

Lonnie,
I am slightly confused. If the admission number is 15, then the net capacity of 105 would be sensible (7 x 15). However you seem to be saying that each year has 22 in it. Do you mean 22 in each class?

As PRH says that would mean that it would not be an infant class size regs case but based on normal prejudice as neither class is anywhere near the 30 limit. The key question i would have is what size are the class rooms? The net capacity would suggest that they are not really that big - if they were normal size 52sq metre plus for 30 pupils then the net capacity i would expect to be at 120 not 105. The numbers in the infants are not really the issue it is potentially the numbers that the school could have in the year3/4 and year5/6 classes in small classrooms as the current rec/ year1 class moves up. An admission number of 15 would suggest 30 in each class in possibly small classrooms.

You need to go to the local authority admission office as they now handle all admissions to schools. However they will be working hard focussing on admissions to reception in september so when you speak to them make sure they understand that it is for current reception and year 2 that the places are needed. You will almost certainly have to go to appeal but having a sibling already in the school who is very close to the sister is always a good starting point for an appeal. As PRH says concentrate on the good things about the school where the place is needed.

hi admission they have a 15 intake yes but year 1 is split between class 1 and 2 giving about 22 students in each class from year 1. (so YR and half Y1 is together and Y2 and the other half of Y1 is together) Y3 and Y4 are togethre and Y5 and Y6 are toghther. so there are 4 classes in total.

I will try to direct my friend to this thread so she can read it all for herself and make up her own mind as to what she wishes to do