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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Can someone talk to me about EYFS and what my daughter should be doing please.

54 replies

Janefeelsold · 10/03/2011 21:20

DD is 4.5 and currently in the nursery class attached to the school she will go to. She is one of the older ones as her birthday is September 2nd. She seems very able and is starting to read. but in nursery they will not do the phonic stuff and they have told me she will start it fresh in Reception.

Thing is she is ready for it now as she is both mature and able. What I don't understand is on the government website is states that all children, regardless of age should be working at their level. which obviously my daughter isn't.

What I also don't understand is why children just 2 or 3 wks older than her are deemed ready even though some may not be, but she's got to wait until September and then by schools own admission start at 'a'.

She is my eldest so maybe I'm being a little bit PFB but if she's ready why isn't she doing it when she would have been if she was born 2 days earlier?

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Original poster

Janefeelsold · 10/03/2011 21:37

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OP posts:

ceebeegeebies · 10/03/2011 21:44

I think this is just one of the frustrating things about having a Sept/Oct baby.

I can see your point of view but maybe the nursery aren't equipped to teach phonics etc and don't want to teach her one thing if the primary school will teach her another way iyswim?

DS1 was one of the youngest to start at school last September (he was born in July) and had friends at nursery who were born in Sept/Oct...they are obviously still at nursery so DS1 sees them when we drop off/pick up DS2 from there. Tbh, they look bored as they are playing with 2 & 3 year olds and just redoing what they did last year - I do feel sorry for them but DS2 is a November baby so that will be him in a couple of years

Hard to get my head round the fact that DS1 is still not as old as DS2 will be when he starts Reception and DS1 has been at school for 6 months now!!

Sorry, waffled a bit there and no help whatsoever

Gottakeepchanging · 10/03/2011 21:51

There should be negligible difference between what she is doing in nursery and what she would do in reception. It is all eyfs and in a good provision a child would have developmentally appropriate provision regardless of re option or nursery.

Many schools (and rapidly increasing) run nursery and reception together as a unit.

The nursery should be doing phonics (well they will be) and that should be pitched at the level of the child. I would expect a small group phonic input at an appropriate level ( based on accurate assessment not age)

wearymum200 · 10/03/2011 21:56

DS1 did phonics at nursery from the day he went into the preschool at (at 2.4, because that's when he was ready), 2 edged sword though as he is in the younger class at reception and so had to start from the beginning all over again with single letter sounds. He was bored and there was some playing up going on....
As above EYFS says children should be at their level, in practice, that's impossible for all of the children all of the time.

Original poster

Janefeelsold · 10/03/2011 21:57

Thank you both. The nursery is part of the school and both are in a little annexed part so run very much as a unit even if only physically. They wear the uniform and take part in the Nativity etc.

DD is very bored and I should have done something sooner but it wasn't until we had parents evening last week that I realised the difference as Nursery parents were invited into Reception for a look around.

I just don't understand why she isn't working at her level and why, from what they have said, she will need to start at the beginning of the programme and work through it next year when she is reading basic books now. Does this mean that a very able Y3 child is not allowed to move on to Y4 work? I am starting to worry about our choice of school now but too late really as offers out next week.

OP posts:

Gottakeepchanging · 10/03/2011 21:58

Wearymum. He may do 10 mins of whole class phonics but the rest should be at his level. Ten mins a day shouldn't make him bored.

Gottakeepchanging · 10/03/2011 22:00

Janefeelsold. Tbh it sounds like poor practice. A child should be accessing phonics at their level. It is not hard to do!

Original poster

Janefeelsold · 10/03/2011 22:00

Thank you, wearymum. Why would he need to start all over? Is his preschool separate from school then?
I could understand if this was the case but it is the same school. DD2 due to go next year and I'm now having serious doubts as she is also an autumn baby.

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Gottakeepchanging · 10/03/2011 22:01

Janefeelsold. What is the programme?

nailak · 10/03/2011 22:05

i just realised that my dd is going to spend 2 yrs in nursery but if her bday was one day earlier it would only be 1 yr, should i b worried?

Original poster

Janefeelsold · 10/03/2011 22:06

The 'programme' is one made up by school. They say they take the best from the government L&S and from JP and produce their own. Though, obviously, I haven't seen it in practice.

Thing is, she wants to read constantly so I'm pretty sure she'll be fairly fluent by September. But, I'm fairly sure she could really benefit from all the JP stuff with the two letter one sound things like 'ay' as in day etc which I have been looking at on the internet. I just don't understand why she will have to wait until this time next year to get that.

OP posts:

Gottakeepchanging · 10/03/2011 22:06

A good nursery or reception class would follow something like letters and sounds. A systematic phonics programme. You do have to work this in order as a whole class ( but ideally in small groups with many going at a faster pace). What happens in practice because some children already know it is that there is a whole class (again ideally split) input on the same thing (working through the system to ensure no gaps) but then the children are taught phonics at their level in small groups or sometimes if a child is significantly ahead behind individually.

smallwhitecat · 10/03/2011 22:09

This reply has been deleted

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Gottakeepchanging · 10/03/2011 22:09

Janefeelsold. She shouldn't have to wait. The school haven't got it right. Bit suspicious if they wrote their own

Original poster

Janefeelsold · 10/03/2011 22:10

Gottakeepchanging, that's what I thought! I asked why as they are an EYFS unit, they couldn't do phonics as a unit and give appropriate stuff to children at their level but I was told that then children like DD1 would come into Reception having already covered the programme. So I'm guessing there is no more learning allowed!

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Gottakeepchanging · 10/03/2011 22:20

The idea of a whole class working through phonics together was part of the initial programmes years ago. For the last few years - especially in eyfs the focus has moved to differentiated phonics building on where a child is. You do still have to work through it systematically but the idea that it would start only in reception and be just whole class is very outmoded.

The eyfs is all about starting from where a child is and building from there.

Original poster

Janefeelsold · 10/03/2011 22:23

I think I am now feeling even sadder and more frustrated with the realisation that this is not just how it is but only how it is at DD's school.

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gaelicsheep · 10/03/2011 22:28

Janefeelsold - my DS is 5 in July and in nursery in Scotland. He starts school in August. The nursery does absolutely nothing in terms of reading or phonics, only a very little whole word recognition (I think). It has bothered me for a while because I too think that DS is getting bored, but I'm reluctant to do anything at home because then he'd be bored when they cover it at school, or worse confused.

Gottakeepchanging · 10/03/2011 22:29

If you go to the national strategies website (quickly as ending on 31st march) and look at clld you will find lots of things you can do with her.

gaelicsheep · 10/03/2011 22:30

So ironically I'm glad in a way to read this thread as I thought it was just a Scotland thing. Sorry for you though - it's so frustrating isn't it. TBH I think DS was ready for school this year and in England he'd be in Reception now.

Original poster

Janefeelsold · 10/03/2011 22:37

I'll have a look at the website, thanks. Why is it closing?
GS, yes, it's frustrating. I just don't understand what 'magic' will happen to her over the summer to make her suddenly ready in the eyes of the school. It must be even more frustrating to know that if you were S of the border, your DS would be getting the input.
-Mind you I am now fairly frustrated to learn that my DD would probably be getting it at another nursery.

I could move her to another nursery but she is settled and as she is going to that school, I think a term of phonic input will only frustrate her even more come September.

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dixiechick1975 · 10/03/2011 22:40

At DD's school the nursery and reception are in adjacent classrooms and share some facilities/play together sometimes.

Some of the older nursery children come into the reception classroom and join with the 'younger' reception phonics group a few times a week.

Any chance of that happening? DD in private not sure if more flexible because of that.

Gottakeepchanging · 10/03/2011 22:42

Oh. The national strategies is being ended on the 31st March as part of the change in direction educationally. The CLL part is continuing but will be migrated somewhere else I think. Website will be there for a few months still but not forever.

Catz · 10/03/2011 22:47

I don't know about the detail of EYFS but out experience has been very different (and more as Gottakeepchanging says). It is not at all a pushy nursery, there is a 'letter of the week' and the children have activities around that so there is a group dynamic to learning but it is very low key. Then the children are taken out in small groups and worked with to gently assess their level. I only really realised this last week when the teacher suggested putting DD (and a couple of others) on a reading scheme. She's 3.7 and the youngest in the class so they had clearly spent time with each to work out their level as I'd not mentioned anything to them (she stated reading in the last month at home).

Can you do things with her at home (I realise this is not how it should be and I would be talking to school too) JP does some good at home stuff for the letter sounds with CDs etc so that the pronunciation is right. If she is really keen and 'getting it' then she should pick it up fairly easily.

cansu · 10/03/2011 23:00

I realise I will probably be attacked for this, but I'm not sure what you are worried about? Your dd is bright. She is still in nursery. What is she losing from not starting phonics? Starting phonics now will make very little, if any difference to her educational qualifications long term. Personally I would be focusing on her social skills and learning through play at this stage.

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