Helping DD to read books which are a bit too hard

[IndigoBell]

If a book is a bit too hard for a child, so that they can sound out each word but can't understand what they've read, because they've spent so much effort sounding out the words what's the best thing to do?

1. Get the child to read it 3 times so that they do understand it?

1. Read it together first, and then they read it second?

1. Read it to them first, and then they read it second?

1. Something else?

(Most of you have heard about my ongoing saga with DD - so I don't want to repeat it here. But she is 8 and can't read anything fluently - so reading simpler texts isn't an option and neither is not reading and leaving it a while...)

I would read together first, paying particular attention to words you know she won't know.

Have you tried using flash cards of the most frequent words?

Getting child to read it 3 times might be pretty boring for them - they generally like some input from an adult. You could take turns, a page or a paragraph each. I would try all the things you mention and see what works. Good luck.

Thanks OliPolly.

paying particular attention to words you know she won't know - you mean know by sight?

The books are totally decodable, and so don't contain many 'most frequent words', nor will she know many of the words by sight. But she can decode them all.

There are very very few words that she knows by sight.

I would say read it together first, either taking turns with sentences or her reading the easier words while you sound out the ones that pose more difficulty. Then let her read it to you, but step in quickly when she struggles with a word so that she has the chance to build up a bit of pace.
This is what worked with my DD2, who had similar issues. I also read aloud a lot to her, which I am sure you do also with your DD, as she was very frustrated with her ability to read not keeping up with her interest.

Primary teacher here! I would really strongly recommend you buy and try this:

www.toe-by-toe.co.uk/ It is a brilliant and proven system. Start again with reading using it.

i was always told indigo there should be no more than 3 words per page they need help with / prompting or the book is too difficult and id also therfore presume that maybe too many interuptions to get the flow and jist of the story whats happening ect and would also then be words to difficult to understand IYSWIM

Forgot to say - for a while I went back to basics with a book called Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons, which is pure decodeable phonics and although we didn't make it all the way through the book it really helped her understand how to sound out words and blend the sounds together.

when I do it with dd, the way it has evolved is that she often reads the sentence very slowly and then I read it back to her.
I can see that she would probably get even more out of it if she read it again herself but you need to keep the speed up or she would get bored. Also doing it this way, she gets the satisfaction of being the one who read it first.

Candleshoe - we have done toe-by-toe and many other SP things. She has been on Read Write Inc for 3 years and still hasn't learnt to read. She gets an hour of phonics a day at school.

Every year at school they 'start her again'. By Y3 we're all getting pretty sick of that approach and red band books.

This is not an issue with not understanding SP or understanding how to decode and blend. It's an issue with being able to do it.

She can't make the jump from being able to blend CVC words to reading CVC words fluently. But after a number of diff therapies and treatments she is now starting to make more progress, so right now I'm trying to support her progress with lots more reading practice....

My kids school use the 'look and say' methods which I know is a bit of hit and miss with other children.

At 4 (they are in prep) they use flashcards of the most frequent words as well as such words like elephant, kangaroo, bear, cat, earoplane etc

At 5 reception, they then introduce the alphabet and phonics. For my DS, it worked wonders! DD aged 4 is on the flashcards now and its going ok

Have you tried old fashioned 'look and say' approach which is very very OUT at the moment and has been for years. It was how we were taught in the 70s! You can still buy some of the books, materials and flash cards etc.

That really is a very different approach to the ones you've probably been offered in school.

OliPolly - Unfortunately DD hasn't been able to learn words by the 'look and say' method either. Although she has just about learnt the 45 high frequency reception words now....

Candleshoe - In Y2 she had a target on her IEP to learn 20 of the high freq words in 6 months. She failed to achieve that target.....

I would really suggest that 3 x 30 mins a day reading practice is the ideal amount for a serious struggler. Can you afford a private tutor? One to one professionally directed assistance really works wonders in these cases.

Have you contacted the BDA? Has she been formally assessed and statemented? Have you taken her to an eye specialist (such as Keith Holland in Cheltenham who says 80% reading difficulties stem from sight issues) and/or a hearing clinic?

DD2 was nine before it clicked - it happened almost overnight when she was in Year 4. She's 11 now and reading fluently for pleasure, but her spelling is quite astonishingly individual, to say the least. She's also not a fluent talker she sometimes takes ages to formulate a sentence and she mispronounces words. I don't know if any of that sounds familiar to you - but I often wonder if DD2 has some kind of auditory processing thing going on - her spelling sometimes seems to suggest that she doesn't hear words the same way other people hear them IYSWIM. Look and say didn't work for her either btw.

Well she currently gets 1 hour phonics a day, plus does reading 1:1 twice a day at school, plus reads with me 1:1 every night......

There's no reason to think a tutor can help if nobody else has been able to. Even the SpLD EP has no suggestions of what to do.

Sounds like loads!

www.keithholland.co.uk/ This guy has worked wonders for several kids I've failed to teach taught. Are you anywhere near?

Of course she doesn't have a statement. A statement for not learning to read or write? Which LEA do you work for?

But a statement wouldn't help. A statement won't teach her to read and write.

A year ago I contacted BDA who told me if I paid for an EP report it would tell me what I could expect her to be able to do...... So funnily enough I didn't take them up on that offer.

But she has been formally assessed by the LEA SpLD EP. Who says (surprise, surprise) she does have dyslexia. And he has no further recommendations because school are already doing absolutely everything they should be for her.

She has recently done vision therapy and auditory integration training, which is why it is recently starting to click, which is why I'm making such a big push at home with her right now.

But yes, she did have both vision problems and hearing problems which weren't diagnosed by either an optician or an audiologist.

So, like I said, now I'm just looking for suggestions for how to support her with reading stuff which is slightly too hard for her.

We've been to a behaviour optometrist very similar to keith holland.

After finishing the vision therapy with DD (which did correct underlying vision problems) he said to us 'Um, I guess there's something else going on there as well'

If you are being helped by so many experts why are you still unsure of the strategies you should be employing at home?

You can get a statement for severe dyslexia and it is vital because it is your ticket to support and funding!

Ways to increase practice of passages rather than single words.

First, I take it you tell her what the passage or story is about so she is well-primed.

You can each read a sentence then swop over. You can each read a word, then swop over.
The main problem with fluency training as I see it is that the readers in most programmes do not provide enough practice. Even BRI(www.piperbooks,co.uk) which has more words per dollar, than any other programme does not provide enough for some children. I know a few users who have done masses of re-reading, myself included with one child.
You can be a slow reader but still fluent.
There are some progs. that focus on fluency training eg Read Naturally, Great Leaps, Quick Reads. I got an advert. recently for one called RAVE-O (over $900.00) I've used Great Leaps, it is one minute readings.

I always use BRI -ARI whenever I can for the amount of practice it provides.

If you are being helped by so many experts why are you still unsure of the strategies you should be employing at home?

I guess because I only get to talk to the SENCO properly every term at her IEP meetings. And since our last meeting she has made progress, so I want to change my strategy.

And even then there is so much to discuss with what school is or should be doing that we don't get to spend much time on what I should be doing at home.

The EP was only concerned with what support school should be doing, not what we should be doing at home. And he's now signed her off.

Thanks Malaleuca.

Do you think I should read the passage to her first? Or just summarise it?