Do new maths methods confuse you?

[LauraSmurf]

I have read a huge number of threads on here recently about new maths methods and how crazy and long winded they may seem.

I wanted to try and play devils advocate and explain a little.

The whole process of using number lines for addition, subtractions and even some multiplication and division is designed to develop mental maths strategies. But it is really hard to teach mental maths withour showing it on paper, it's a bit of a catch 22 to be honest. We are not expecting people to be 21 and still drawing number lines! It is an early step method, it is not desgined to be their lifelong method!

As for the dreaded 'chunking' in division the same applies, when you think about it, it is exactly what we do in our heads! I know it can become long winded, but again please remember it is not intended to be your child's division method for life! Just a couple of years until they have the mental down!

When they get to year 5 and 6 they should (hopefully) be taught the "efficent written methods" that we all know and love. Column addition, subtraction and multiplcation with 'bus shelter' divsion too.

Please do not think that we as teachers think that the crazy long ways are better AS WRITTEN METHODS! We don't TRUST ME! But their is method in the madness.

I also just wanted to say that i know it can lead to fraught homeworks for a while, but just trust that we know it seems mad, but it's really not! It has been proven to work.

I just wanted to try and explain why school use these methods and try to stick up for my favourite subject!

Feel free to question, flame or PM if you like!

Advocating over :)

Actually most people do day to day calculations in their heads don't they?

I remember my then 10 year old son complaining "why do I have to write it down? I know the answer and miss knows I know the answer ...so why do I need to write it down?"

I'm not disputing that people do calculations in their heads. In fact that is what i am saying this is trying to teach.

For some children it seems to come really naturally, others need it shown explictly, that is what these methods are practising.

Hopefully by the time they are 10 they should be able to distinguish between when mental strategies are appropriate and when to use a written method. That will depend largely on the child.

If they reach this stage the long winded methods have actually done their job!

What do you think?

You need for this.

I'm confused, I seem unable to help my 9yo dd with her maths. She had division homework and couldn't divide 15 by 4 so I was trying to get her to halve it and halve it again. Went to see her teacher who looked confused and asked why I hadn't just got her to divide it by 4. Well I don't know how to short of getting beads out and she should be past that stage.

Anyway my brother who is a maths teacher explained chunking to me and I thought fab - I get this.

Saw dd's teacher and checked thats what they do at school as DD said she'd never seen it done like that before. Teacher said they do it that way in Yr 3 and 4 but now in Yr 5 they use a grid method. DD is still adament she hasn't been shown chunking.

I have no clue what the grid method is but teacher said "don't worry they don't do much division for SATS" I'm not bothered about the bloody SATs, I'm bothered about her having basic maths skills for life.

Going to have to ring my brother up again.

If anyone can explain "grid division" to me please help!

If she knows her times tables, then she should know that division is the inverse of multiplication. Though for some reason they don't always teach that very explicitly, so you may need to get a workbook or some worksheets to reinforce the idea.

I have no idea about grid division, I just make mine learn their tables and clock the idea that dividing is just times tables backwards. Obviously if the sums have remainders then you need to teach that separately.

Yes they confuse me. and my bestfriend, who is an accountant, finds it hard aswell.

Number lines are fantastic...... They allow children to show how they have solved a calulation (whatever the operation) and has allowed by class of year 3/4 children to see that there are many ways to solve the same problem...which is something children find hard to appreciate. Too many think there is ONE way to solve a calculation when of course the most agile mathematicians can find many.

The grid method is for multiplication.
Chunking is for division
and both are the steps before learning the compact methods (the way most current adults were taught).

Every year I have problems with children who have been taught too early the compact methods by well meaning adults who think thee are "easier". Yes they can use them but if the make an error quite often they can't work out what they have done wrong. It's a bit like teaching one route from your home to work...if one day there is a road block you don't know any other route and are stuck!
And of course the child that knows the compact method then thinks they don't need to learn the "baby" ways... Kumon kids can be a bit like this!! [ducks head as missiles are thrown].

Well I always thought that the grid method was for multiplication but dd's teacher was adament that they don't use chunking for division anymore but use the grid method instead.

DD does know most of her multiplication tables but seems totally unable to reverse the process to divide.

Aske the teacher to show you, Viva - I've never heard of grid division.

Try this activity to help with inverse calculations, etc -

Give 3 numbers - e.g. 3, 18 and 6
Get our dd to make two multiplication facts and two division facts using only those numbers. Then have a chat about the positions of the numbers in each fact and how/why they change for each calculation.

your dd , phone is intefering.

interfering, fgs!

I used to think the modern methods were confusing and couldnt understand why additions/subractions were written along a line instead of underneath each year.

But having spent time relearning maths how the kids are taught today I now fully understand the madness and my mental maths has improved by about 500%. I no longer reach for the calculator to do basic sums.

There are so many different strategies taught for mental maths and it is interesting to listen to a group of children how to tell you how they got the answer - they will all be different.

Having spent my whole childhood and most of my adulthood hating maths because I didnt understand it, I am now extremely good and confident. I really wish I had been taught the way kids are taught today.

Laura - what's bus shelter?

"And of course the child that knows the compact method then thinks they don't need to learn the "baby" ways"

So true. I have been guilty of teaching my kids to run before they could crawl (written methods). My kids have now gone back to the beginning and relearning the whole process step by step(as a result of Whizz)

It's the funny line and a curve that you put over numbers when doing traditional division.

Thank you. I have never ever heard that phrase!

In my dcs school they teach multiplication and division of for tests and really think it makes sense for understanding the inverse concept. However, whatever the reasons for doing the log winded methods, these should be explained to parents at some stage in an evening session or a piece of paper sent home, so homework doesn't get so stressful!!

We dropped a lot of the "long winded" methods in our calculation policy because we found it confused children and parents and now teach children to do it in their heads. A third of my Y2 class know ALL of their times tables and the related division facts.

Hi sorry for delay in replying.

Feenie is right when i say 'bus shelter' division i mean the on that looks a bit like this:
-121-
3(363

I have to agree with the others that i have never heard of grid method for division, only multiplication.

Roadart, i am so pleased that you and your children have come all the way through the process and it has improved the mental maths, it can seem totally crazy for a while, thank you for proving it works.

Mrz, is in a really bad place mathematically, i only joined this year in a ks2 class and OFSTED have given us notice to improve largely to do with our mathematical teaching and results. I hope that in a few years we too can remove a few of the methods as the mental maths understanding and taching improves. However we are currently playing catch-up and so teaching every step explicitly to support children, parents and teachers!

Thanks for not flaming me!

Oh oppse that bus shelter example should look like this:

121
3(363

Third time lucky!

121
3(363

Actually we are in a really good place mathematically with improving results Laura

Yahey!

I hope to be where you are in a couple of years.
I think that we need to ensure that we are teaching all of the methods (long - winded or compalct ) for a while, both to fill gaps in the current children's knowledge and to teach the teachers what children need to know.

Our teachers are quite unskilled when it comes to teaching maths, especially mental strategies. I live in hope of improving standards and staff confidence!

I hope to be in your position in a couple of years!!